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October 22, 2006

Comments

Colm

Alison

I posted a comment on the I predict a riot thread which I think also applies here. By all means debate this issue but don't be surprised if a constant drip drip "don't wear the veil" message ends up provoking more and more Muslim women into doing so.

alison

That all depends on who leads the debate Colm. This is no time to get cold feet unless you propose a ban?

David Vance

Totally agree with you Alison, and in particular with penultimate paragraph.

Monica-Philadelphia

Soooooooooooooo. The little lady worships at a radical mosque. What a surprise.

Alan McDonald

Monica,

Any new run-ins with the radical Islamists of Philadelphia? The last one I remember was with CAIR-PHILLY last February.

j0nz

A few moonbat comments over at the Telegraph article:

The UK began as a multicultural, multilingual, multinational state. The only way to end multiculturalism is to end the UK. Someone mentioned that all British schools should teach in English. Where does that leave Welsh and Gaelic speaking schools?

Posted by joch mctavish on October 18, 2006 4:08 PM

What jockstrap. Obviously the English speaking schools is a reference to inner city schools where anything goes...

This language is very racist and unhelpful. One "deals" with a problem and British Muslims are NOT a problem - at least no more than other members of the various majority and minority ethnic and religious groups that make up the UK. British Muslims have always and indeed still do contribute in many positive ways.

Integration is a two way process.

Please also tell me how the government will "deal" with the problem of white, English, Christian disrespectful 'yobs' or violent gangs of various other groups?!

Posted by LME on October 18, 2006 1:56 PM

Yes, can't move for Christian yobs blowing up tube trains.

j0nz

Check this for BBC bias. Gushing interview at the BBC, under the hyperlink "Behind the veil - Teaching assistant retains focus amid school dispute "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6068408.stm

Teaching assistant Aishah Azmi has no regrets about the huge controversy stirred by her refusal to take off her veil during lessons.

She is small in stature, but big on principle.

The Cardiff-born support teacher is unfazed by the national - and international - attention paid to her refusal to take off her veil when working with male colleagues.

The 23-year-old, married mother-of-one knows she could defuse the row by backing down, but will she?

B>"No" is her polite but firm reply.

Although born in Wales, her family later moved to Birmingham. Her father is an academic and came from India to Britain in the 1970s.

From Birmingham, the family moved to Dewsbury, in West Yorkshire.

Ironically, from the age of seven to 11, Ms Azmi went to the same school that she is now suspended from - Headfield Church of England Junior School.

'Puzzling' criticism

She started teaching there in September last year. Although she didn't wear her veil to the job interview, she did wear it when she began teaching.


Her critics will point to her decision not to wear it during her job interview

Discrimination claim lost

She worked in the classroom with other members of staff and her precise job title was ethnic minority achievement curriculum support assistant.

This meant working with Year 6 pupils, aged 11, who speak English as their second language, and assisting them with lessons in maths and English.

Mrs Azmi says the first two members of staff she worked with in the classroom did not raise the issue of the veil as a problem - but a third one did.

This was three weeks into the job, and she says she felt "puzzled". She claims no complaints had been made by children or parents, merely from one male teacher.

However, the local council claimed her ability to teach the children properly was suffering.

'Caught unawares'

Mrs Azmi has been wearing a veil for eight years - and refused the school's requests to take it off when teaching.


Suddenly, the case of a young woman from a quiet corner of West Yorkshire is headline news

Her critics will point to her decision not to wear it during her job interview.

A week ago, during a BBC interview she was asked directly whether she wore the veil at her interview. She hesitated and then replied: "Do I have to answer all the questions?"

When pressed again, she admitted she had not worn the veil but insisted she did not realise she was going to be interviewed by a male.

"I was caught unawares," she said.

Sick leave

When the veil controversy began at the school last year, she admitted she considered resigning but in the end she decided that if they wanted rid of her, they would have to sack her.

She was off on sick leave for a number of months and when she returned in February, she was again asked to remove her veil - and again she refused.

After being suspended, an employment tribunal hearing was held in July.

It is only now that a decision on her various complaints has been reached.

The tribunal dismissed her claims of discrimination and harassment on religious grounds.

But Kirklees Council, the local education authority, was ordered to pay her £1,100 for victimising her.

Of course, what has changed since July is that, thanks to politicians like Jack Straw, the wearing of the veil is now high on the British political agenda.

Suddenly, the case of a young woman from a quiet corner of West Yorkshire is headline news.

After she held a news conference on the first floor of a Leeds hotel on Thursday afternoon, I asked Mrs Azmi if she could tell us more about herself, for example what were her interests?

She replied simply: "Education."

Under that veil is a mind clearly focused on proving her point - and getting her job back.

alison

She is small in stature, but big on principle? Really? Women in Iran are fighting for basic equalities. They are the women of true priniciple. But then what does the BBC know about priniciple.

Monica-Philadelphia

Alan - no run-ins. Unless you count the moslem on the next block down who beats the crap out of his wife.

daytripper

alison,

womens rights are hardly going to be furthered by bombing the shit out of the country.

Richard Carey

I think Labour are going on about the veil to try to defuse the BNP vote in their heartlands.

Maggie


"womens rights are hardly going to be furthered by bombing the shit out of the country." Which country the UK, Iran? No the US has its hands full at the moment with Iraq and Afganistan so they won't be in any hurry to take on Iran. Darfur, as I said the US is busy right now and no other country in the world is going to step in and help them, so we can happily let them sink into the mire. Europe might hold it's hands up in horror but that's it. Good old UN always good for a laugh.

Going back to your comment I thought they were furthering their 'rights' by coming to UK. They are not forced to wear this daft head gear in this country. They choose to do so, which is more in line with causing trouble than religion. Please clarify your remark.

alison

Great comment Maggie precisely re furthering equality in coming here. DT but actually what ARE you babbling on about! Did i advocate bombing the shit out of Iran? No!

Alan McDonald

Hi, Alison.

Could you answer the question I asked you over on the I Predict a Riot thread:

When you say, from what i can see the US is fond of that crap too, which particular crap do you think we Americans are fond of?
Your comment was dated October 23, 2006 at 08:39 AM, and included the following:
In France this is wholly down to a lack of jobs. ... The French hate everyone ... so their issue really is how they manage integration. Weve screwed ours up with multi culti rubbish and from what i can see the US is fond of that crap too.

BTW, Monica doesn't by the "lack of jobs causes terrorism" argument.

daytripper

DT but actually what ARE you babbling on about! Did i advocate bombing the shit out of Iran? No!

well youre only one of very few on here.

alison

Hi Alan

Sorry i forgot to check that thread. Amongst other things in the US I mean the ethos of 'affirmative action', 'diversity checklists' that sort of thing. Multi cultural practise was, I think, something that Clinton favoured? In New York City guidelines were issued that urged teachers to encourage children to use their own language. I think this plays into the hands of some who use it here or in the US to hypersensitise their 'communities' and set themselves apart. Civil rights legislation in the US in the 60s was a decent and necessary thing and I daresay intentions here were also very well meaning in that regards. But often what starts out as well intentioned virtue turns into vice when it is used to enforce seperation. And worse assume all cultures are equal and unchallengeable.

Regards France, it must be understood that none of that applies! French North Africans (they arent muslims if they live in a secular country) are seriously unintegrated. The HLMs, dont get me wrong, are actually pretty decent. But discrimination is rife. The chances of a French North African male, equally well qualified as his white French peer, actually getting a job are slim. Unemployment is rife amongst youth in France and worse still amongst north africans. I see the years of resentment that have built up there as the prinicipal cause of the rioting much as we here had Toxteth, you had LA etc. They use Sarkozy as their hate figure but the only person capable of hauling the French job market into the 21st century is him. He may well be the bitter tasting medicine they need and ive been reading lately that he isnt as reviled by the French NAs as some say.

aileen

Day tripper

when you are reunited with Mrs Daytripper will you then put away your broad brush?

daytripper

i merely respond in kind. afterall im an anti-semitical, terror appeasing communist.

alison

you forgot 'silly' which you're being now

Alan McDonald

Alison,

Thanks for the response. I wasn't aware of the New York City guidelines you mention, but I am aware that businesses are concerned about anti-discrimination law suits. There is a tendency to inflict "sensitivity training" on employees in order to avoid litigation, but I sincerely believe that Americans are immune to that sort of thing.

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