Our Appeasement Is Their Strength

I ardently believe that if separatism in the United Kingdom is pandered to, it becomes stronger.  This has little or nothing to do with demographics.  Between 1991 and 2001 the Catholic population increased by 1.8%.  Electorally, nationalism increased by 9%.  A combination of Unionist apathy and separatist appeasement through the vehicle of the peace process gave those who wish to tear the Union asunder an additional spring in their step.  Only in the last two elections has the nationalist share decreased.

You might think that in Scotland, where Labour proclaims to be an ardent Unionist party (in contrast to its position in Ulster), the appeasement of separatism would not occur.  Wrong!  For whereas Labour pandered to separatism in Ulster through the 'peace process', it has appeased nationalism in Scotland by default - by establishing devolution there in the first place and making the most appalling policy/strategic mistakes in its control of the Scottish Executive.

Back in 2001 I remember having a chat with Bob McCartney.  I said that devolution in Scotland would strengthen the SNP by default and put them in the primary position to reap the rewards of Labour/Lib Dem mismanagement; a position they could not hope to attain via the Westminster route.  They would then leap upon increased support as an indicator that the Union was a lame duck waiting to be shot.  Sure enough this is what has happened.  A number of recent polls have confirmed the SNP as the biggest mover and shaker on the devolved political scene.  33% want to give this disloyal rabble their support at the next Holyrood elections, as against 29% for Labour.

We have seen the consequences of the SNP's rise: unbridled arrogance from the independence lobby on the Internet and in the news, coupled with demands for the Scottish Executive to conduct a referendum on the matter, even though it would have zero constitutional legitimacy in legal terms.  What we will see, I suspect, in 2007 is an SNP victory in an election with the lowest turn-out in recent Scottish history - as the apathy of the silent majority (who are not for independence) facilitate the rise of the SNP by their very abstentionism.  Thanks Mr Blair.  An exercise lauded by the academic and political great and good as a way of thwarting separatism may, in fact, contribute in large part to its electoral success.  As Dennis Norden might say: 'What a cock up!'

Comments

[Peter]

Silent majority? Apathetic majority more like. It's up to them to stop the SNP by voting for one of the three unionist parties next year - Labour, Lib-Dems or Tories. It's not like they don't have a choice.

[Iain]

the scottish socialists and the greens are also pro-independence as far as i'm aware. that would bring the pro independence vote up to about 40%. not enough yet unfortunately, but getting there.

[Winnie]

We Scots have had enough of pompous idiotic English people. We have OUR oil reserves and we have fantastic potential.

If the Irish can do it with absolutely no Natural Resources then we Scots can definately do it with our Oil wealth.

Independance has never been so close !

Bye Bye Sasanachs....

[Sean Fear]

Well, it would depend what you did with independence.

If you follow the Irish example, and slashed taxes and privatised, you'd probably do pretty well.

If you did what most Scottish politicians want, ie pushed up taxes, penalised successful people, rack up public spending, you'd be even more of a basket case than at present.

It's noteable that since devolution, growth in Scottish GDP has been at about half the rate of the UK as a whole.

[Mardy Bum]

"Back in 2001 I remember having a chat with Bob McCartney."

CLANG! Hmm, someone seems to have dropped a name on the floor.

[smcgiff]

‘Electorally, nationalism increased by 9%.’

You forgot the other possibility – Enlightened Protestants! :)

‘as the apathy of the silent majority (who are not for independence)’

Apathetic voters are for nothing – The value of a voter’s opinion who remains at home on polling day is ZERO.

Like all electorates, they will give a thumbs down to government during polling, but return to form come election time. Labour will remain the largest party. I really can’t see the Scottish having the will to go it alone outside the UK

'CLANG! Hmm, someone seems to have dropped a name on the floor.'

I wonder, does Bob ever say, I was talking with Andrew McCann in 2001... :)

[SBK]

The SNP are a one policy party. That policy being "Fuck the English!". If the English decided they liked biscuits the SNP would have a campaign in favour of "Biscuit Hatred Day". The SNP candidate for chancellor of Glasgow Uni ran on a veiled message of helping prevent English folk "taking" Glasgow Uni places from locals, he was soundly trounced in the contest.

I found in my time in Scotland that hatred of the English was inversely proportional to the number of English people actually met. Many of my friends from Norn Iron, who also lived there, agree that in many ways Scotland is a petulant child that needs a slap.

A favoured ploy of mine when a Scot went of on one about the English was to look pissed off and say "My Mum's English!". A total lie but it was worth it to witness the back peddling.

[jaun]

perhaps we should restart the no pope here party.

[Gracey]

Well 44% of Northern Irelands people (our neighbours Jaun) are Catholic - So I don't think a no pope here policy would be all that fair !!

[Iain]

Disagree with you there SBK. The SNP is not anti-english, but its main policy is independence. There is a lot of anti-english sentiment here in scotland though.

“as the apathy of the silent majority (who are not for independence).” Of course they’re not for independence. They’re not for the union either though. They’re apathetic.

Also, though voting for the SNP is a vote for independence, I’m not sure when people vote for labour and the lib-dems that they are necessarily voting for the union as the main issue. I think a lot of catholics traditionally vote for labour (as do muslims). Its possible that some of those voters could be convinced on the independence issue. The only party that is ardently unionist is the conservative party. They’re not very popular at all

[jaun]

I don't think you understood the historic connotations of my little joke gracey.......

[Ross]

The one thing that makes me slightly sympathetic to Scottish nationalism is listening to Scottish Labour politicians argue in favour of the Union. Their argument seems to be that Scotland should stay in the UK because they get money from Westminster, which is a terrible reason for remaining.

[Winnie]

Yes, they give us money - but the Revenue from our Oil is massive - what we get from Westminster is only a very tiny fraction of this.

With Idependance we will have all the revenue from the Oil - Lower Taxes, Higher Social spending, Better Infrastructure etc.

Just like Norway.

If the Irish can run their own affairs and apparently do it quite well - Why can't the Scots?

[jaun]

if Scotland went independent in its current condition and with its current leadership people would be starving in the streets.

why hate England when they butter your bread for you, why hate those who give you charity ?
Scotland is as much my heritage as Ulster , I love it and want it to be strong noble and free, the small minded xenophobes want it reactionary, stateist and enthralled to long redolent principles, the union is quite possibly the most misrepresented item of history I know of. many Scotsmen and women gave their lives to defend not just Scotland but the whole united kingdom (a free nation) the common endeavour of our forefathers (English Scottish Irish and Welsh) is what keeps you little bellies full and pencils in your little hands, together we can be a great nation, divided we will simply fall further and further in to the rootless, moral less void (under the steward ship of the very modern thinkers of the snp et al) that can be seen in the rankness our modern day ill educated, drug addled disparate and nihilistic Scottish society.

[daytripper]

as long as its under english hegemony, eh juan. just watch how scottishness is used against gordon brown in any leadership contest. britian is only invoked when its in english interests. winners are british, losers are scottish, welsh or irish.

[Winnie]

Jaun,

My Dearie you know very little of what you speak. I am a very prous Scottish Presbytarian. The Union was definately good for Scotland in the past but not any more. It is time for us, as a proud nation to take our seat at the high table of Nations.

You say that people would be starving in the streets. I'ver never heard rubbish in my life.

Our Oil revenues ALONE make us one of the wealthiest nations on earth and if we could set our own policies and taxes and run our own economy we would be first class.

We are not Northern Ireland - We do not need to depend on the English to "butter our bread".

Yes Scots fought and died under the British flag and with Independance the Queen would still be Head of State in Scotland.

But we will no longer play second fiddle to the English or anyone else.

Second place and second rate may be good enough for our Ulster Brethren, but it is not good enough for us.

Not good enough.

[smcgiff]

'if Scotland went independent in its current condition and with its current leadership people would be starving in the streets.

why hate England when they butter your bread for you, why hate those who give you charity ?'

Why? That such a belief could exist is reason enough! What self respecting person would be happy with the thought they owed their existence due to someone else's largess?

The more people suggest Scotland are too incompetent to run their own country then I guess the more Scots will think - 'Oh yes we could, in fact I think we should prove it!'

[David Vance]

Winnie,

Thank you for your interesting comments.

I do not agree with a word that you write, but it's the first time I've noticed you so welcome to ATW.

I must post next week on why I think England should invade Scotland, convert you all to Anglicanism (even if it is even more apostate than Scottish Presbyterianism0, take all the wealth that is left after your socialists have wasted it on pointless and stupid diversions such as the Parliament, and then ensure that no more oil goes near Scotland. How's that. my dear?

We're not second or third class in Ulster, nor are any worse parasites living off the English like dear old Scotland the not so brave.

[daytripper]

what % of people are employed by the government, in northern ireland david?

[Winnie]

Mr. Vance.

I do hope your comments about the English invading Scotland were meant in jest.

And as for a conversion to Anglicanism? I think you will find that several despots tried that thoughout History and it did not work.

In terms of being parasites - if anything it is others that are parasites.

Scotland's natural resources are just that - Scotlands. The UK exchequer takes ALL of the revenue at present and the money that Scotland recieves back via the Barnett Formula is a pittance. We are not subsidised like other parts like for example Wales and indeed Ulster.

Don't misunderstand me, I have the utmost respect for Ulster and Ulster folk and hope that an Independant Scotland would retain the strong links between us. But we are not parasites and independence will definately work positively for all our people.

Thankyou for the welcome.

[David Vance]

Too many.

Remember, there is NOTHING the public sector does that the private sector cannot do better.

Time to take the axe to the public sector - right, Tripper?

[David Vance]

Winnie,

It was indeed tongue in cheek.

That said, on what basis is North Sea Oil "Scotland's Oil"? It's a topic for a further debate, but again, thank you for coming here.

[Mardy Bum]

Too many.

Remember, there is NOTHING the public sector does that the private sector cannot do better.

Oi! Some of us are bloody good or would be if our creativity and imagination was allowed to flourish. It is an organisation which, to paraphrase Keynes, prefers people to fail conventionally rather than succeed unconventionally.

[daytripper]

Remember, there is NOTHING the public sector does that the private sector cannot do better.

Time to take the axe to the public sector - right, Tripper?

couldnt agree more. but with approximately 50% of the country on proxy benefits you have little case for saying we arent a nation that suckles at englands teat.

[David Vance]

tripper,

You are quite right, and I oppose the very concept of State suckling. It's unhealthy though decades of terrorist bombardment can slightly ameliorate this in NI. Scotland has no such excuse and the fact that SO many work for the socialists in power there is a disgrace - since the UK funds it.