WHOSE SIDE IS SHE ON?

It's being reported that US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has expressed support for an immediate cease-fire in Lebanon as the first phase in ending the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah.

It was the most concrete signal yet that the U.S. may be willing to compromise on the stalemate over how to end the fighting. Moving closer to the position that France and other European countries are taking, Rice predicted that a U.N. Security Council resolution would be approved within days that would include a cease-fire and describe principles for a lasting peace.

With all due respect to my US readers, Israel should tell Condi to go to hell.  Her gutless behaviour throughout this affair has sickened me.

She completely fails to understand that..

..an IMMEDIATE CEASEFIRE leaves Hezbollah intact, emboldened to strike another day.

..an IMMEDIATE CEASEFIRE will be presented as a DEFEAT for Israel throughout the Arab world.

..an IMMEDIATE CEASEFIRE signals to Jihadists that the US Secretary of State is prepared to hang Israel out to dry in order to curry favour with the Arab world. Diplomacy without principle now rules.

All this bleating about Israel using "disproportionate" force against Hezbollah is just one big crock and Charles Krauthammer exposed it in this wonderful article...

When the United States was attacked at Pearl Harbor, it did not respond with a parallel "proportionate" attack on a Japanese naval base. It launched a four-year campaign that killed millions of Japanese, reduced Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki to cinders, and turned the Japanese home islands into rubble and ruin.

Disproportionate? No. When one is wantonly attacked by an aggressor, one has every right -- legal and moral -- to carry the fight until the aggressor is disarmed and so disabled that it cannot threaten one's security again. That's what it took with Japan.

Britain was never invaded by Germany in World War II. Did it respond to the Blitz and V-1 and V-2 rockets with "proportionate" aerial bombardment of Germany? Of course not. Churchill orchestrated the greatest air campaign and land invasion in history, which flattened and utterly destroyed Germany, killing untold innocent German women and children in the process.

However with an out of touch Secretary of State like Condi Rice, Israel is being bullied into settling for a CEASEFIRE which hastens the day when it may no longer even exist. Thanks Condi - but your performance here is woeful. It's as if Colin Powell never went away! PUKE.

Comments

[Mardy Bum]

The island of righteousness is becoming less populous by the day. It's like a neo-con Big Brother.

[David Vance]

The island of depravity grows more crowded by the day. An anti-Semite Big Brother.

[Mardy Bum]

Again those who hold legitimate grievances against the policy of a government (NOT a religion) are accused of anti-semitism. I hope you were not accusing me of that sickness.

[David Vance]

Mardy,

The Israeli government seeks to protect the Jewish State against Islamic Jihadists in Lebanon and Gaza. Do you support that right or not? The answer to that answers your question.

[Mardy Bum]

I am neither anti-semitic nor am I anti-Jewish.

Of course I uphold the right of a sovereign, democratically-elected government to protect its people.

[David Vance]

Good. Then you support Israel's war on the anti-Semitic Jw-hating scum in Hezbollah and Hamas. Both terror entities are explicit in their desire to remove all Jews from Israel, so it follows you must support the current actions of Israel. Right?

[Mardy Bum]

But logic and global conflict don't go hand in hand David. The apocalyptic scenario in which you believe has no room for nuance or an understanding of how the opposing side views the problem.

The answer is, David, I don't know. I wish I could be as sure of my righteousness as yourself.

[alison]

Im not sure whats unclear about Hitz b'allahs position. Nazi salutes, asking all the jews to gather in Israel so they can be disposed off easily. The apocalyptic scenario broadcast by Iran who support these people. What is to be condemned in David about taking a stand against this? And certainly of levelling such repulsive sentiment as you do when trotting out your 'hate'fest Mardy Bum? Particularly since you claim you 'dont know'. What makes you so morally right in your obtuse judgments?

[Mardy Bum]

Alison - going by the vituperative nature of your posts on a daily basis, if I've started a hate-fest, you've bought a ticket and are crowd surfing with gay abandon.

I make no claim to be morally correct for I know that the universal truth is that there is no such thing (cf Hume or Ruth Benedict).

My posts reflect a bewilderment with the world based on a full admittance that I don't understand much of what is going down but a hunger to see what each side has to say. Yours reflect a bitter, Nietzschean world viewpoint that is based on suspicion and hatred but is actually soaked in a wet blanket of fear.

But I assume you have no problems with that, safe as you are in your little bubble of prissy self-righteousness.

[Peter]

Mardy Bum, hear-hear!

[David Vance]

Mardy,

I am sympathetic to your comment that "My posts reflect a bewilderment with the world based on a full admittance that I don't understand much of what is going down but a hunger to see what each side has to say."

I don't mean to be hurtful to you, nor I'm sure does Alison. BUT, some of us are very clear where we stand, we are not in the least bewildered, and whilst I do not wish to belittle people like you, we do not accept a neutral position on the war on Islamic terror. We want to win, we want to beat them, indeed I want to see militant Islam crushed into the dirt. I am explicit in this - but I am also pleased that minds like yours visit here and at least read sich views. Hope you accept my sincerity on this! It's a Friday and the weekend beckons...

[Peter]

DV, I think Mardy's point was that not everything in this world is black or white.

I also want to see islamofascism defeated, but I wonder if Israel's current action in Lebanon is actually helping to achieve that objective. They have raised Hesbollah's status in the eyes of millions of Arabs and still 100 rockets a day are hitting northern Israel.

[Mardy Bum]

David, I do appreciate your sincerity, and for me merlot beckons before the weekend. The distinction between points of political difference and the descent into rancourous abuse is a thin one, and whereas some stay on the right side of it others may roam lazily across it.

My problem is not with bloggers such as yourself. Your views are considered and are based at least on evidence, no matter how skewed it may be (and I'm perfectly prepared to accept that I too am skewed) Rather my gripe is with your groupies (for want of a better word) who take your word as gospel and seek to ridicule anyone who might so dare as to pose an opposing view.

The question of whether remarks are hurtful to me is neither here nor there: I wouldn't post if my skin was thin enough to be affected by it and the day that a right-wing bantamweight such as Alison causes me to weep into my cocoa at night is the day I lose the plot. However the consequences are that, ultimately, people with other views will stop posting and this site will turn into a Stalinist outpost where one view and only one view is accepted and your zealots engage in daily daisy-chains of mutual verbal masturbation before realising that, because their dogma is based on hatred, they cease to exist as sentient human beings when there is nobody around to disagree with.

[alison]

No Mardy Bum - it is very clear who is wound up so tight in a self righteous hatefest that he cant respond to a simple comment here. You certainly do not have a hunger to see what each side says because at every opportunity your little comments are based on assumptions and pure hatred for those who take a firm stand with Israel.

Why should that be so?

I dont wish to align myself with hate mongerers like Hitzballah and somehow in your mind you insist that makes me hateful? And then post spurious remarks if i challenge you on this.

I simply wont stand back and be accused of this for taking a stand. Neither will I accept that you in not taking a stand are in some way morally superior.

You consistently fail to answer any questions in your rush to spout your vitriolic crass absurdities about me and others. In so doing you naturally encourage the same back. But lets me clear - it IS you that consistently posts the vitriol and invites it.

I asked you what makes you so morally right in your obtuse judgments. Your response is plain.

[Mardy Bum]

Alison- well done, your post is the verbally dextrous equivalent of: "no you started it".

Well, to drag myself down to your level, I'll get you back at playtime.

[alison]

Mardy's point was that not everything in this world is black or white

Peter - No it isnt. But then please tell me why taking a stand on one side or the other should necessarily be 'hatefilled' and comments supporting them just so? Or lazy? Or that we are in some way 'groupies' for forming an opinion and commenting at ATW? Or should invite such remarks as Mardy Bum posts?

Mardy Bums comment was aimed squarely at all who comment here that might agree with Israels plight, not initially at me - but it is now directed at me simply because i challenged him for hiding behind a pseudo mask of moral superiority whilst feigning sitting on the fence!

[alison]

No Mardy Bum - you still havent answered the question though you like to pick up on the rest. Well done. It wasnt even hard either.

[Mardy Bum]

The only mask I'm wearing this morning is my Monty Panesar one whilst watching the cricket and looking vaguely busy behind my desk. I'd respond to you Alison but it wouldn't serve to add anything to the discussion. You have your truth and I have mine. I'm comfortable with that. Enjoy the rest of your day (if you people are emotionally capable of enjoyment).

[alison]

"ultimately, people with other views will stop posting and this site will turn into a Stalinist outpost where one view and only one view is accepted and your zealots engage in daily daisy-chains of mutual verbal masturbation before realising that"

David -

If you ever pop over to 'Lenins Tomb' or the majority of left wing hate sites youll find that any comments of opposing views are deleted immediately and only one 'argument' rolls out through the threads. ATW is one of the few sites where you can argue plainly. It would be as well for some to consider this.

[alison]

Thanks Mardy Bum, i didnt think you'd answer and frankly Ive one eye on the cricket myself. I agree you are fixed in your viewpoint. You are a bit hilarious. it all adds to a Friday.

[Neal]

Well said, Mardy. To get back to the specific topic of the original post, why blame Rice individually? It's quite unlikely that she would wander out onto a limb away from the rest of the administration.

[ch in texas]

As your *ahem* preimminent American poster, let me say I am disappointed in Rice's comments. I can only hope that the administration has a "cunning plan" behind the scenes. Bush's comments in Miami were unambiguosly in favor of israel.

[alison]

David - before a ceasefire can be put in place the remit of the security forces that will patrol the area have to be agreed. No state will send in forces unless this is fixed. I reckon she is paying the necessary lip service to all the bleeding hearts hoping for a Hitzb'allah rearm. Israel have been very vocal about what will work.

[David Vance]

Alison,

I hope you are right,

Chas,

All our US commentators are treasured by moi!

Neal,

Fair enough point. But US State is instinctively pro-Arabist! Lots of nice jobs after one retires, don't you know, with those rather rich Saudi companies.

[daytripper]

I can only hope that the administration has a "cunning plan" behind the scenes.

i dont think there can be anything but a "cunning plan" at play here. its a well worn path to have opposing options out in the public domain. for one it confuses those dont know how global politics really operates. and the other benefit is that rapid policy changes can be executed without it looking like a swift u-turn has been executed. you merely, publicly, de-emphasise one and turn up the heat on the other. its got kissinger written all over it.

But US State is instinctively pro-Arabist! Lots of nice jobs after one retires, don't you know, with those rather rich Saudi companies.

mie gawd, where have you been for 6 years. have you ever seen the current US adminstrations arab business interests. part of the complex web that "our felix" intimates towards when he says that the US is not a true friend to israel. in that sense im totally in agreement with him. i think israel is "used" and to a certain extent allows itself to be "used".

PS david, how about an indepth analysis on how something as simple as water distribution is a big factor in middle eastern troubles. its rarely factored in, but is actually a major issue in the whole israel/palestine dispute. of course youll probably think im mad for even bringing it up.