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March 12, 2006

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Felix Quigley

So

No comments rushing in on that

Lets talk bodies then

WHY HAVEN'T THE BODIES BEEN IDENTIFIED?

We often hear that:


"Some 4,000 bodies have been found so far in the vicinity of Srebrenica, but only 70 have been identified." (Emphasis added, 'Agence France Presse' ('AFP'), 10/7/00)

According to the Sunday Mail: 'After five years we have found 160 mass graves, but we have no idea who the people are."

The grave sites that NATO has dug up are mostly a) near battlefields or b) near the towns attacked by Nasir Oric's serial killers. The Clinton administration admits that "we have no idea who the people [in these graves] are."


But we do know that Oric's Islamist terrorists killed thousands of Serbian villagers. Doesn't it make sense that the bodies NATO has dug up are A) victims of the Islamist terrorists, B) soldiers who fought the Islamists, C) Islamist terrorists killed in fighting?

The url for this is
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/texts.htm


Felix Quigley

Who then is this guy Oric

This extract raises issues about the Clinton support for Islamofascist killers

ISLAMIST LEADER BOASTS OF
MURDER

The UN declared Srebrenica a 'safe zone' in 1993. That meant a) Srebrenica was supposed to be disarmed and b) it was supposed to be safe from attack

But the UN never disarmed the Islamists who occupied Srebrenica.

The Islamists "troops" were actually a gang of sadists in the tradition of the local Islamists who joined the Nazi SS during World War II and slaughtered Serbs, "Gypsies" and Jews. Listen to their modern-day incarnation, Commander Nasir Oric, leader of what is called the Bosnian Muslim Army, in Srebrenica:


"[On the video tape I saw] burning houses, dead bodies, severed heads, and people fleeing. [Commander] Oric grinned throughout, admiring his handiwork. 'We ambushed them,' he said when a number of dead Serbs appeared on the screen.

"The next sequence of dead bodies had been done in by explosives: 'We launched those guys to the moon,' he boasted. When footage of a bullet-marked ghost town appeared without any visible bodies, Oric hastened to announce: 'We killed 114 Serbs there.' Later there were celebrations, with singers with wobbly voices chanting his praises."

(Emphasis added, 'Toronto Star,' 16/07/95)

Note that Oric says his "troops" mutilated and slaughtered innocent villagers, not Serbian troops. In World War II the Nazi Islamists killed by mutilation, using so-called "cold weapons" - knives, hammers, axes. They liked to be photographed with what they called "trophies" - the severed heads of their victims. That was the Nazi past, right? Well, here again is Nasir Oric, Commander of the terrorists, otherwise known as the Bosnian Muslim Army, in Srebrenica:


"Nasir Oric's war trophies don't line the wall of his comfortable apartment. They're on videocassette tape: burned Serb houses and headless Serb men, bodies crumpled in a pathetic heap.

'"We had to use cold weapons that night,' Oric explains as scenes of dead men sliced by knives roll over his 21-inch Sony...Reclining on an overstuffed couch, clothed head to toe in camouflage fatigues, a U.S. Army patch proudly displayed over his heart…the Muslim commander is the toughest guy in this town [of Srebrenica], which the U.N. Security Council has declared a protected 'safe area.'" (Emphasis added, Washington Post, 16/02/94)
The Clinton administration strongly supported the Muslim regime in Sarajevo. Oric's killers were that regime's army. Is this why Oric wore a US army patch? Note that the Post expresses no horror over Oric's unbelievable crimes.

Oric worked for the Muslim regime in Sarajevo. The Clinton administration praised that regime as pro-Western and tolerant.

Well,. the head of that regime was and is Alija Izetbegovic. He joined the pro-Nazi Young Muslims in nazi-occupied Sarajevo in 1943. He helped recruit members of the "SS Handzar Division." He worked with Hitler’s intelligence service (ABWER and GESTAPO). In 1946 he was sentenced by the Yugoslav Military Court to three years in prison for his fascist activities. (1)

Jumping forward to 1990, here's a quote from Izetbegovic's book, "Islamic Declaration:"


"...There can be no peace or coexistence between the "Islamic faith" and non-Islamic societies and political institutions. ... Islam clearly excludes the right and possibility of activity of any strange ideology on its own turf…and the state should be an expression …of the religion. ..." (Emphasis added, 'Islamska Deklaracija,' p. 22)
Izetbegovic idolized the Ayatollah Khomeini. His fanatic Islamist movement lost the 1990 elections to Fikret Abdic. Abdic was a moderate Muslim. But the Bush and Clinton administrations backed Izetbegovic who forced Abdic out. Abdic and his moderate Muslim followers allied with the Bosnian Serb Army against Izetbegovic's Islamist fanatics.

Why has the Clinton government backed these Islamist fascists? As we will see later, Clinton is supporting the same sort of sadist butchers in Kosovo today - in fact, in Kosovo these killers have been given official jobs with the UN. More on that in a moment.


THE MYTH OF THE 7000
MISSING MUSLIMS

By 1995 Oric's murderous raids forced the Bosnian Serb Army to send some of its limited number of troops to retake Srebrenica. Unfortunately, Oric and most of the terrorist thugs escaped. Today Oric is free as a bird, running a disco in the town of Tuzla.

As the Serbs entered Srebrenica, the terrorists retreated into the forest, heading for Islamist-dominated Tuzla. Firefights raged all night. 2,000 terrorists were killed. US Ambassador to the UN Richard Holbrooke clams up to 8000 Muslims were executed, but there is overwhelming evidence that in fact they got away. The Sarajevo regime has helped spread the lie that they were killed by the Serbs in order to demonize the Serbian people.


[Thousands of the] "missing Bosnian Muslim soldiers from Srebrenica who have been at the centre of reports of possible mass executions by the Serbs, are believed to be safe to the Northeast of Tuzla.....

"For the first time yesterday, however, the Red Cross in Geneva said it heard from sources in Bosnia that up to 2,000 Bosnian Government troops were in area north of Tuzla. They had made their way from Srebrenica 'without their families being informed', a spokesman said, adding that it had not been possible to verify the reports because the [Islamist] Bosnian Government refused to allow the Red Cross into the area."
(Emphasis added, 'The Times,' 02/8/95)

Url again is
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/texts.htm

So in conclusion at this point when the research is done and we get away from this Serb hatred we find that the Islamofascists of Izetbegovic's army, the Bosnian muslim Army, was indeed a collection of bloodthirsty murderers.

Quite a difference is it not.

So the Serbs are seen in a different light.

Remember this happened in the 90s and remember what has happened since.

Felix Quigley

And I will come to an end on this thread by looking at what a "Dutch UN peacekeeper" said.

I do not believe that all the research in the world will convince a guy like Colm and the others above.

In fact I am not writing this for them who I really do view with TOTAL contempt.

Rather I write it for Monica, David, Ernest Troll and others who are interested in finding out what this NATO and UN are really like.

In this piece please pay attention to Captain Schouten who was there.

"When the Bosnian Serb Army recaptured the town of Srebrenica five years ago, Dutch UN peacekeepers were the only Western observers present. The Dutch UN peacekeepers ridicule Clinton Administration claims that Serbian troops massacred thousands of disarmed Muslims:


"Everybody is parroting everybody [about Srebrenica] but nobody shows hard evidence. In the Netherlands people want to prove at all costs that genocide has been committed. I don’t believe any of it. The day after the collapse of Srebrenica, July 13, I arrived in Bratunac [alleged massacre site] and stayed there for eight days. I was able to go wherever I wanted to. I was granted all possible assistance; nowhere was I stopped." (Captain Schouten, the ranking UN officer on the scene in Bratunac, Het Parool, 27/07/95, my emphasis)

The Myth: Led by the Clinton administration, the Western media has used the Myth of Srebrenica to slander the Serbian people for five years. The idea is: repeat a lie enough times and people will believe it.

But what really happened at Srebrenica? What happened there before the Serbian army recaptured the city?

As we will see, there was a massacre, in fact there were many massacres, but the Serbs were not the villains. They were the victims.

Islamist terrorists, based in Srebrenica, raided local villages, mutilating and murdering Serbian and moderate Muslim villagers. Innocent civilians. It's a miracle that when the Serbs retook Srebrenica they did not exact revenge."

Felix, errr ..when do you go to bed?

Madradin Ruad

When they turn the lights out ....

Peter

Sixteen posts by Quigley 6.06pm and 8.09 pm. (See Quigley, I can both count and tell the time, stupid though I undoubtedly am!)

That must be an ATW record. Another word would be FLAMING.

As to the argument, Quigley, here's a theory for your rabid brain to consider:

THE 8,000 MUSLIMS COMMITTED MASS-SUICIDE AS PART OF A FIENDISH ISLAMO-FASCIST PLOT TO DISCREDIT, YES, YOU'VE GUESSED IT, ISRAEL!

LOL!

Son, I wonder if you're on medication. If you are, you really should take it. If you're not, you jolly well should be.

What a berk!

Ross

{Jumping forward to 1990, here's a quote from Izetbegovic's book, "Islamic Declaration:"}

Well first of all it was published in the late 1960s not 1990 although coming from someone who believes Bush declared war on Serbia a little inaccuracy in dates is to be expected.

{There can be no peace or coexistence between the "Islamic faith" and non-Islamic societies and political institutions}

This a misquote he actually says-

[here can be no peace or coexistence between the "Islamic faith" and non-Islamic social and political institutions}

As Noel Malcolm points out in his book, Bosnia; A Short History the sentence-

"frequently quoted in isolation by Serbian propagandists"

Ahem

" is referring to countries which unlike Bosnia, which have islamic societies and arguing that where the majority of people are practising muslims they cannot accept the imposition of non muslim institutions"

and also

"This provision [a majority of practising muslims] ruled out the creation of an Islamic government in Bosnia, where nominal Muslims, let alone practising Muslims, were in a minority."

So as I predicted 'the evidence for his supposed islamofascism is an out of context quote from a book he wrote 30 years ago.'

Felix Quigley

I think it is fair to say that the issues I have raised, and I am not really an expert, just a person who has read up on the material produced by jared Israel of www.tenc.net, that not one of the above posters has answered.

As I said I did it not for them because I knew this would happen.

I will try to develop my own site best I can.

People like Ross are simply dishonest people.

By the way the date above is not the most vital issue and your point about the difference in the word if true is a bit of a joke. I took both from jared and I stand by him.

Felix quigley

On the question of Izetbegovic and the date of the publication of his book I have found some evidence:

"President Alija Izetbegovic's Islamic Declaration, first published in 1970 when it earned him a prison sentence, demanded a fully-fundamentalist Muslim state in Bosnia without scope for non-Muslim institutions or any division between religion, politics, and economics. The book was republished in 1990 in Sarajevo (by Mala Muslimanska Biblioteka). It scathingly attacks Attaturk's reforms and holds up Pakistan as a model to be followed."
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/alija.html

A further piece may be useful

"Izetbegovic's doctrine - "The Islamic Declaration"

Izetbegovic published many articles in Muslim journals
(TAKVIM, GVIS, etc.), discussing the sad state of Islam and
the necessity for its universal regeneration .

In 1970, he wrote and distributed to people of confidence, his
specific manifesto or programme for radical pan-Islam - the
ISLAMIC DECLARATION .

In this booklet, similar to many of the same type circulating
in the Islamic world, but the only one of its sort in
Yugoslavia, Izetbegovic advocated:

- general Islamic moral and religious regeneration;
- a return to true Islamic values;
- (re)Islamisation of Muslims;
- creation and strengthening of different types of Islamic
unity;
- struggle, up to and including political and armed war for
the creation of an Islamic order in countries where Muslims
represent majority, or near majority of the population .

In line with his pan-Islamic and anti-secular thinking,
Izetbegovic stated in the ISLAMIC DECLARATION that:

- there should be the establishment of "a united Islamic
community from Morocco to Indonesia";
- with reference to the Turkish model - "Turkey as an Islamic
country used to rule the world. Turkey as an imitation of
Europe represents a third-rate country, the like of which
there is a hundred in the world.";
- "there can be neither peace nor coexistence between the
Islamic faith and non-Islamic social and political
institutions";
- "the Islamic movement must and can, take over political
power as soon as it is morally and numerically so strong
that it can not only destroy the existing non-Islamic
power, but also to build up a new Islamic one" .


The ISLAMIC DECLARATION is imbued with a deep-set intolerance
towards "the values of western civilisation", both capitalist
and Marxist. It was re-published in 1990 in Sarajevo,
testifying to the fact that its author, in the meantime, had
in no way gone back on his positions - one of Islamic
fundamentalism .

Muslims who gathered around the re-published ISLAMIC
DECLARATION, were former members of the "YM" and new
activists. They tie their activities to those of Muslim
centres abroad - religious, political, propaganda and economic
- above all with specific groups in Iran ."

From Wikepedia, always objective:

"The Islamic Declaration (1970)
In 1970, Izetbegović published a manifesto entitled The Islamic Declaration, a work which contributed greatly to his later portrayal as an Islamic fundamentalist. He highlighted the decayed state of Islam and called for an religious and political regeneration across the Muslim world, although the book made no reference to Bosnia. In two particularly controversial passages, he declared that "there can be neither peace nor coexistence between the Islamic faith and non-Islamic social and political institutions" and that "the Islamic movement must and can, take over political power as soon as it is morally and numerically so strong that it can not only destroy the existing non-Islamic power, but also to build up a new Islamic one". He promoted the idea of a "united Islamic community" in which non-Muslims would have their rights guaranteed.

Do we want the Muslim peoples to break out of the cycle of dependence, backwardness and poverty? ... Then we can clearly show the way which leads to this goal: the generating of Islam in all areas of personal individual life, in the family and society, through the renewal of Islamic religious thought and the creation of a unified Islamic community from Morocco to Indonesia. - From "The Islamic Declaration" (p. 5, link below)
The idea of Islamic renewal, which understands Islam as capable not only of educating human beings but also of ordering the world, will always have two types of people as its opponents: conservatives who want the old forms, and modernists who want someone else's forms. - ibid., p. 8
The briefest definition of the Islamic order defines it as a unity of religion and law, upbringing and power, ideal and interest, the spiritual community and the state, willingness and force... An Islamic society without an Islamic authority is incomplete and without power; Islamic government without Islamic society is either utopia or violence. Generally speaking, a Muslim does not exist as a sole individual. If he wishes to live and survive as a Muslim, he must create an environment, a community, a system. - ibid., p. 26
There can be no peace or coexistence between the Islamic faith and non-Islamic societies and political institutions. The failure of these institutions to function and the instability of these regimes in Muslim countries, manifest in frequent changes and coups d'état, is most often the consequence of their a priori opposition to Islam, as the fundamental and foremost feeling of the people in those countries. - ibid., p. 30
There are immutable Islamic principles which order relations between people, but there is no Islamic economic, social or political structure which cannot be changed... Nothing which can make the world a better place can be rejected out of hand as non-Islamic; ... In order to be Islamic, a solution must fulfill two conditions: it must be maximally efficient and maximally humane. ibid., p. 31
Islam contains the principle of the umma, i.e. a tendency towards the unification of all Muslims in a single community - religious, cultural and political. Islam is not a nationality, but it is the supranationality of this community. - ibid., p. 36
The upbringing of the people, and particularly means of mass influence - the press, radio, television, and film - should be in the hands of people whose good Islamic moral and intellectual authority is indisputable. - ibid., p. 42
Islam must take the initiative of recognizing motherhood as a social function. Harems must be abolished. No one has the right to refer to Islam as a reason to keep women disenfranchised: abuse of this kind must be brought to an end. Such attitudes do not represent a Western feminism, which has displayed a tendency to impose the measures, whims and mastery of a depraved element among the female sex. Neither is this equality in the European sense. It is an underlining of the equal value of men and women, together with the underlining of the differences between them, which should be preserved. - ibid., p. 47
In the struggles for the Islamic order, all means are permissible except one: crime. No one has the right to defile the good name of Islam by the uncontrolled and superfluous use of force. The Islamic community should once more confirm that justice is one of its keystones... Formula: the aim justifies the means has become the cause of numberless crimes. A noble aim cannot comman unworthy means... - ibid., p. 49
The Islamic order can only be established in countries where Muslims represent the majority of the population. If this is not the case, the Islamic order is reduced to mere power (as the other element - an Islamic society - is missing) and may turn to violence. The non-Muslim minorities within an Islamic state, on condition that they are loyal, enjoy religious freedom and all protection. - ibid., p. 49
When considering these matters, the dilemma inevitably arises - albeit only for a moment - that a shorter way to the Islamic order would be by taking power... This is mere temptation. History does not relate any true revolution which came from power. All began with education and meant in essence a moral summons. - ibid., p. 53
There is no secular principle, and the State must be for Muslims the scrupulous expression of the moral and conceptual pillar of the religion. - ibid."

My understanding is that the aim of the Bosnian Islamofascists under Izetbegovic was to set up an Islamist state within Bosnia. Is this not in effect what has happened.

Also to understand the nature of this Balkan Islamism you do have to journey back to the 40s and the role of the Croatian fascists, the Nazis, along with the Bosnian Islamofascists and their extreme cruelty towards Romany, Jew and above all to Serb.

The republication of this book in 1990 ( I am not sure if it was in book ar pamphlet form in 1970), the actual date issue is hardly so important as to its contents.

Colm

Felix

No-one is going to read this mountain of text you keep posting here. You are using up David's ATW bandwith with all this . Post links instead of all the text and then people can choose to go back to the original sites.

Felix quigley

To sum up some issues on this thread:

I questioned whether the Srebrenica Massacre had actually happened.

This was met by incredulity on the part of posters here who tried to use ridicule.

I knew exactly what I was doing. I knew that in fact I did have the evidence and from the very best of sources, such as the London Times, that suggests that the Srebrenica Massacre is a Fraud.

I repeat the first sentence from that Times article

""Thousands of the "missing" Bosnian Muslim soldiers from Srebrenica who have been at the centre of reports of possible mass executions by the Serbs, are believed to be safe to the northeast of Tuzla. "

That Times article has not been commented upon by my opponents here.

I introduced the evidence that the Red Cross and NATO were sending prisoners against their will to places like Dublin, the US and Australia to keep the massacre story going.
They ignored this as well.

Then I introduced the statement by Captain Schouten but this too was ignored:

"Everybody is parroting everybody [about Srebrenica] but nobody shows hard evidence. In the Netherlands people want to prove at all costs that genocide has been committed. I don’t believe any of it. The day after the collapse of Srebrenica, July 13, I arrived in Bratunac [alleged massacre site] and stayed there for eight days. I was able to go wherever I wanted to. I was granted all possible assistance; nowhere was I stopped." (Captain Schouten, the ranking UN officer on the scene in Bratunac, Het Parool, 27/07/95, my emphasis) "

No matter what evidence I produced it was not acknowledged.

There are many people who believe that the Serbs carried out that massacre and they are convinced by the Media Lies.

But not everybody who on hearing the evidence in an argument like this refuses to even argue against the evidence, using instead whether a book was published in 1970 or 1990 to avoid the arguments put forward.

In this case as on this thread you are dealing with a particularly hardened type of political animal who will back the UN and NATO all the way against the Serbs.

That is really the whole point of this thread. I certainly have drawn sharp conclusions about these anonymous posters and what their role is.

Colm

"I introduced the evidence that the Red Cross and NATO were sending prisoners against their will to places like Dublin, the US and Australia to keep the massacre story going."

That says it all Felix. About as ludicrous as believing that Prince Philip arranged the killing of Princess Diana by pressing a remote control button from Buckingham palace which triggered a malfunction in the car speeding through the Parisian Tunnel - yet there is evidence on the net to 'prove' that if you search for it.

Madradin Ruad

Colm - he's raving. Why waste your time?
In East Enders parlance :

Leave 'im Colm , 'E ain't worf it!

Felix Quigley

Colm

The evidence that I have produced is taken largely from www.tenc.net. This does not require any great knowledge of the subject on my part. Anybody could do this. But the evidence is to prove that no massacre was perpetrated by the Serbs at Srebrenica.

But the whole basis of the impriosonment of Milosevic, never mind the question of whether he was murdered, and the attack on the whole Serb leadership rests on whether NATO and the UN faked Srebrenica. It became the centre of the Hague trial and it was becoming clear that the Hague Trial had proved nothing.

And you worry about band-width. And you claim people will not study the evidence. I think they will and that is my strong opinion. Furthermore the nature of this thread and this argument necessitates me putting it down in black and white print, WITH THE SOURCES CLEARLY INDICATED.

Now the latter is a method almost foreign to you. To put it differently you approach this only in an emotional way and not in a scholarly way.

You write above and describe the dispersal of Srebrenica prisoners as being ludicrous in order to keep the idea of the Massacre alive.

Why do you think this is ludicrous? Only if you believe in the first place that there was a massacre and that nothing will ever change your mind.

Now that is really a closed mind situation.

The quotes you refer to I could place down again for you to read and comment upon. Those quotes you are dismissing so glibly were from the Guardian and from the pro-Muslim news agency TWRA. I could place down again the Times quote which tells of how many of those supposed 8000 massacred had escaped. I could again place down the words of the UN Captain who was on the scene with full access in the area where they said the massacre had taken place. And so on.

No Madradin I am not raving. And what I am writing is worth paying very close attention to.

I will tell you why. If it is indeed the case that the whole of the Media, in conjunction with the UN, the EU and NATO, has been able to make people believe this lie, then that is one of the most serious things I can think of.

Perhaps I have not succeeded totally. But at least I am working on it. However to call sourced material such as the Guardian and The Times (both of whom are also hostile to the Serbs) as ludicrous, now that is where the danger lies.

As to the number of my comments, this is being a little unreasonable, when you consider that on this thread I am alone fighting for my point of view on the issue against many people, yourself included.

daytripper

so youre deriving your thesis from a single source. never i great way to convince anybody of anything.

Colm

Felix

You certainly are alone if you seriously believe the Red Cross and other major international organisations would conspire to effectively kidnap thousands of Muslim men and boys in Bosnia , spirit them against their will to the four corners of the earth - hide their existence - and all to make up a false 'massacre' story out of some fanatical desire to demonise the Serbs . Why ? For what reason ?. Why would the great global organisations in the Media , Military, Political and Humnaitarian spheres all come together to concoct this great fantasy story in order to get at the Serbs. It makes no sense whatsoever. I don't care how much 'evidence' you paste here - it is ludicrous.

Felix Quigley

Dayt
The same source. You must be joking. The sources used by tenc range far and wide, BUT IT IS ALL SOURCED for people to check up on.

The problem with you Colm, you are obviously a decent guy, but it is the necessity to explain the most basic things.

Think of a few things..Think Cold War, oil (the Baltic), break up of Yugoslavia into client states (that has worked), think the actual demonisation of the Serbs that is still going on.

An example of the latter, I read in Spanish papers references to the "Butcher Milosevic. The Genocidist Milosevic.

You know innocent until....

But you still put your finger on the problem. It IS hard to believe and if it is true the implications are huge.

So my appeal to you Colm is to check out the sources, put all the evidence together and see what you come up with. This may take months but use that method. Trust nothing you read. Check it many times.

I am now off as I want to write something on mcIntyre and this cartoon issue for my site.

Enjoy the weekend.

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