Poor old Jim Glibley. Millions of light years away from even any prospect of ending the Union; his buddies infiltrated by half the workforce of Universal Exports; and a career in its twilight concocting gibberish to be presented as bounteous gifts to the half-wits who vote for his erstwhile Shinner comrades. Look at his latest offering, Ali-Baba. The granting of funding for a rebel orgy fest in the centre of Belfast for one day in March has suddenly transformed - in the most earth-shattering way - the political landscape of Northern Ireland.
So what is Gibbers prattling on about this fine morning? Apparently, for the first time in history, Belfast City Council has decided to give British taxpayers' money (how many souls in West Belfast and South Armagh legitimately pay taxes? Mmm) to fund a St. Patrick's Day carnival on Royal Avenue. In theory I should have no problem with this. Patrick is the patron saint of the island of Ireland; a Brit who introduced Christianity and allegedly banished the snakes from Erin's turf. He arrived long centuries before the concept of political Oirishness was even thought of, and Belfast is located on the island of Ireland after all. I deeply admire Saint Patrick above all the other British patron saints.
However, I do have a problem with it. Saint Patrick's Day will be used by the assembled mass of frothy-mouthed republicans (a soap scum of soap dodgers if you like) as a Fenian-fest to make a political point. I doubt whether the pilgrims from the darkest urban anal recesses of Provodom will have the actual saint or his achievements/Christian message in mind when they gather replete with the flag of a foreign Republic, chanting 'Up the Ra!', and genuinely making every effort to be as thoroughly obnoxious as possible, which for an Irish republican doesn't take a great deal of effort.
Gibbers has let the steak-knife out of the bag. March 17th will not be an apolitical appreciation of sainthood as should be right and proper in a place like Northern Ireland. It will be a Republican Haj, as the faithful rush forward to kiss Gerry Adams's turn-ups. Whatever the odious spectacle of seeing hundreds of inferior beings, with the absence of moral rectitude that comes from supporting mass murderers, it won't make one iota of difference to the endurance of Northern Ireland's constitutional position within the United Kingdom. The statues of Belfast City Hall may well have to gaze upon a rabble bathed in green, white and orange on the 17th, but they will still flank a building where the Union Flag flies proudly on the 18th and thereafter. That's why Unionists can afford to stay at home this coming March 17th and do something more worthwhile, like have a manicure or their eyebrows plucked.
Andrew,
It is generally accepted that St. Patrick was not a Breton but was born to Roman parents living in Britain and he actually learnt Oirish and Oirish customs.
Posted by: Garfield | January 13, 2006 at 11:21 AM
It is generally accepted
A meaningless contribution. Until recently it was generally accepted that Denis Donaldson was a true son of Erin. For centuries it was generally accepted that the earth was flat.
It was generally accepted in the USA that the British were "occupying" Northern Ireland.
Posted by: Madradin Ruad | January 13, 2006 at 12:26 PM
Madradin,
Andrew states that St. Patrick is British as fact. Pointing out it's not as simple as that. Any chance you can answer the question on the Christian Brothers thread?
Posted by: Garfield | January 13, 2006 at 12:55 PM
Universal Exports... rofl, love it! By the by is your spellchecker broken? It's spelled Irish, not Oirish.
Posted by: PopeBuckfastXVI | January 13, 2006 at 03:32 PM
Garfield is right of course. St Patrick was a Romano-Briton.
Posted by: United Irelander | January 13, 2006 at 06:01 PM
Nobody Knows for sure who Saint Patrick was. One of the few things we can be certain of was that the "Irish" who "never did nuthin'" were aggressive slavers long before the African Slave trade.
Posted by: Madradin Ruad | January 13, 2006 at 06:06 PM
Will look at the CB Thread later Garfield :)
Posted by: Madradin Ruad | January 13, 2006 at 06:07 PM
I hope the answer is worth the wait :)
Posted by: Garfield | January 13, 2006 at 06:17 PM
Andrew states that St. Patrick is British as fact.
No he doesn't - he wrote
a Brit who introduced Christianity
and that he was a
British patron saint
Which are very different from your claim Garfield.
He was an outsider who, if he had come as a Padre to a British regiment would have been referred to by republicans as ... a Brit !
Posted by: Madradin Ruad | January 13, 2006 at 06:41 PM
Evidence suggests Patrick didnt even introduce Christianity to Ireland
Posted by: Oxonian | January 13, 2006 at 07:01 PM
Nothing shocking about that oxonian.
Posted by: Madradin Ruad | January 13, 2006 at 07:13 PM
“Belfast City Council has decided to give British taxpayers' money (how many souls in West Belfast and South Armagh legitimately pay taxes? Mmm) to fund a St. Patrick's Day carnival on Royal Avenue”
Errr no Andy. BCC are going to use Belfast ratepayers , [of which I’m one], money to fund the St Pats day carnival so South Armagh doesn’t come into the equation, and believe me, householders which pay rates to BCC would be the majority of inhabitants in West Belfast. The BCC funded carnival is also actually set for ‘Speakers Square’ in front of Belfasts Customs House and not, as you suggest, Royal Ave.
Facts, dear boy, facts.
While were on the issue of facts I note your sneeringly speculative thesis regarding the origins of Irelands Patron Saint. Check out the origins of St George. Presumably he’s one middle eastern individual that you don’t mind having an association with Britain?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._George
Posted by: Weapons of Crass Instruction | January 13, 2006 at 08:36 PM
Update on the Derry GAA situation - being given 7 acres at a knockdown price, whinging because they will have to fund their own development.
The Council should have in the deeds that if the site is ever sold on or redeveloped commercially ALL profits return to the Council.
Posted by: Madradin Ruad | January 13, 2006 at 08:40 PM
'BCC are going to use Belfast ratepayers , [of which I’m one], money to fund the St Pats day carnival so South Armagh doesn’t come into the equation, and believe me, householders which pay rates to BCC would be the majority of inhabitants in West Belfast..'
Oh, so the expenditure through the Barnett Formula doesn't apply to nationalist political orgies, then?
'A majority of households in West Belfast pay rates.'
Proof please. My comment was curiosity mixed with conjecture. It doesn't merit statistical proof. Your response does!
Location is irrelevant. It would be preferable if such an event was held on Rockall.
As for St George, he and Omar Sharif are two middle eastern gentlemen I don't have difficulty associating with.
Posted by: Andrew McCann | January 13, 2006 at 09:10 PM
I'm confused - if I read this correctly Andrew is making the point that 'Oirishness' is somehow a modern constructed identity with political overtones etc that has been eloquently made by revisionist historians. Yet, then he makes the blunt assertion that Patrick was a 'British' saint as if that is some sort of natural category, some thousand years before such a state existed, and even longer before any national identity existed.
Posted by: hairierarea | January 14, 2006 at 02:08 PM
For the record, as people seem confused by this.
St Patrick was British, although a Romanised Briton. That's why he spoke Latin and preached the religion of Rome.
He would have needed to understand and speak Irish.
At that time, the English, lowland Scots and Ulster prods were still German, as they hadn't actually left Germany, by that stage.
Posted by: Biffo | January 14, 2006 at 02:19 PM
Biffo,
he would have been a Briton not British. The term "British" is a more modern construct.
Pedants of the world unite.
Posted by: Garfield | January 14, 2006 at 02:22 PM
Yeah my point is just that it is suggested that republicans should be embarassed by the fact that Patrick was born in the physical space of Britain. But insofar as they are anti-British, isn't it the nation-state that emerged well after Patrick's time that they have a beef with? Just seemed a cheap point to make.
Posted by: hairierarea | January 14, 2006 at 02:37 PM
Patrick was indeed very likely to have been a Brit born near Dumbarton in Scotland. His father Calpurnius was a deacon and his mother Conchessa was reputed to be a relative of St.Martin of Tours. He is of course a Saint of the Celtic Church of Ireland and established an evangelical church in Ireland which relied on the Bible alone for its authority and inspiration.
I think that on the Sunday nearest St.Patrick's Day every one of the individual Orange lodges and Black Preceptories should march to the centre of their community,be it hamlet,village,town or city and hold an appropriate religious service which would do our Patron Saint honour. Such a memorial would contrast vividly with the beer swilling,republican, tricolour waving anti -Protestant orgy that will evolve at the front of Belfast City Hall on the appointed Day.
T.Ruth
Posted by: T.Ruth | January 14, 2006 at 04:24 PM
Partick's "Letter to Coroticus" deplores the slave-raiding done by a British king against Ireland.
The peoples living between Hadrian's and Antoinine's Walls (roughly the current Scottish-English border and the Forth-Clyde line) were Britons in every correct sense of the word, descended perhaps from the Pretani, the P-Keltic pronounciation of Q-Keltic Cruithne. Although never an integral part of the Roman Empire, and converts to Christianity, they were nevertheless encouraged, trained and equiped by the Romans as a buffer between the Romanistas and the more barbarous Caledonii to the North. From their capitals of Alclud and Dun Eidyn in the North, the Gwyr Y Gogledd were the only Christian military force in Britain after the fall of Rome. They held off simultaneously the Irish invaders from Ulster & Argyll, the Picts from the north, and Germanic peoples from the Continent. They were Keltic, not Gaelic, and certainly not Anglo-Saxons. They were Christian, but not Romanistas.
They were a nation in the sense of a shared language and culture, which eventually incorporated the centres of Carlisle (in Rheged), and York. They contributed much to the reality behind the lengend of Arthur.
Their mindset carried on through later Ages, giving us the Border Reivers, Moss-troopers, and the Ulster Scots.
Two thousand years of this lifestyle made the Scotch-Irish the perfect people to act as a buffer between hostile Indians and genteel Tidewater settlements in Colonial America.
Though today they may speak English, this comes after a long progression from Scots, before that Gaelic, but even before that what can be described perhaps as Cymric, or Old Welsh.
Posted by: Ultonian Scottis American | January 14, 2006 at 04:28 PM
"Whatever the odious spectacle of seeing hundreds of inferior beings, with the absence of moral rectitude that comes from supporting mass murderers..."
The same could be said about "the Twelfth"! This "Christian" organisation has swapped the suit and umbrella for a Rangers jersey and a blue bag from the offie!
Posted by: Donnie | January 14, 2006 at 04:51 PM
“Oh, so the expenditure through the Barnett Formula doesn't apply to nationalist political orgies, then”?
That’s a red herring Andy. The Barnett Formula is used to decide how much the devolved administrations get from central government. In case you haven’t noticed there is no devolved administration in the wee six. My initial point rests, the St Pats day carnival will be funded by Belfast ratepayers.
'A majority of households in West Belfast pay rates.
Proof please. My comment was curiosity mixed with conjecture it doesn’t merit statistical proof. Your response does”!
West Belfast has a housing owner/occupier % of 42.1%, [source www.wbef.org/census], this, when taken in conjunction with private business ownership and rented housing stock from private landlords, clearly demonstrates that the majority of the west Belfast population are ratepayers.
“Location is irrelevant. It would be preferable if such an event was held on Rockall”
If that’s the case then why bring locations such as west Belfast and south Armagh, [both areas with high nationalist constituencies], into the equation?. Why not wonder how many souls in East Belfast and North Down legitimately pay taxes?
“As for St George, he and Omar Sharif are two middle eastern gentlemen I don't have difficulty associating with”
Glad to see that your offensive, sweeping and simplistic generalizations of people from that area have exceptions. However the inconsistency doesn’t really surprise me in that it’s fully consistent with your other contradictions regarding evasiveness of Unionist violence.
Posted by: Weapons of Crass Instruction | January 14, 2006 at 05:32 PM
WCI
There is no proof in any of those surveys that the inhabitants of West Belfast, as a collective majority, legitimately pay taxes, espcecially when you consider how many 'private businesses' the Rafia have their fingers in.
The Barnett Formula applies whether Belfast has a devolved administration or not. However, even if we apply your 'ratepayers formula', the majority of ratepayers in Belfast (working age population) would be Protestant. Why should their money go to fund a republican orgy designed to denigrate the state in which they live?
'How many souls in East Belfast and North Down pay taxes'. A hell of lot more than those in West Belfast, given that neither area is contaminated to anywhere near the same extent by the outworkings of terrorist influence in the local economies.
'Glad to see that your offensive, sweeping and simplistic generalizations of people from that area have exceptions.'
Whereas nationalist/republican Oireland has no exceptions.
Posted by: Andrew McCann | January 15, 2006 at 09:19 AM
There is one barometer we could use - TV license Tax evasion - as previously discussed.
Posted by: Madradin Ruad | January 15, 2006 at 10:00 AM
Nice to see the Brits using the Irish language like "gibberish" and "Mc". Watch out now AmcC - its catching, so off you go now and have yourself a wee "dram" of "whiskey galore".
Posted by: Frank | January 15, 2006 at 12:02 PM