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January 03, 2006

Comments

NRG

If Mr. Gallagher thought about it logically rather than politically environmental clean up should be managed on British Isles wide basis and he should be pressuring the Republic's government to fall in line with targets set down in Westminister.

Peter

NRG, that'll be the day!

RJM

Agree about the comments of politicians towards the environment- they are nonsensical in the extreme. That said, it's always a bit unrealistic to expect Sam Foster to say something vaguely intelligent.

BTW, I hate to post 2 links to the same paper within ten minutes, but what do you think of this article discussing how conservatives in the USA are shifting towards environmentalism.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-1964887,00.html

Aileen

"Sam Foster"! Isn't that going back a bit?

RJM

Shit, sorry, wrong nonentity. Should have read in more detail.

That doesn't detract from the fact, however, that the Ulster Unionists placed that useless bumpkin in charge of the environment

The Troll

"a century of storms, floods and droughts if changes are not made."

that's Gods judgement of pain and suffering for being a TERROR supporting Nation LOL

"thats more believable than man causing global warming"

Peter

Extract from excellent article linked by RJM:

"As the late Russell Kirk, the ideological godfather of contemporary American conservatism, wrote, “In America especially, we live beyond our means by consuming the portion of posterity, insatiably devouring minerals and forests and the very soil, lowering the water table, to gratify the appetites of the present tenants of the country.” He demanded that Americans behave more prudently to honour “the future partners in our contract with eternal society”.

Do today’s mainstream conservatives — the sort who snort automatically at those on the left who say that we really cannot afford to keep mucking up the only planet we have — even know what Kirk was talking about? Do they care to?"

Answer to both questions, in a word: NO!

The Troll

The True Father of Conservatism was and is D'Israeli

The Troll

Peter
Anyone figure out how to turn those volcanoes off yet? Mt St Helens been erupting for over 3 mths now. Sombody better call mother nature and tell her she is NOT going to meet her Kyoto standards LOL

Peter

Troll, you prove my point, as usual.

RJM

That article wasn't simply about the effects of Kyoto, which I always disliked deeply. It refers to a growing perception that mindless destruction of our natural wildlife and wilderness is simply wrong.

That's why I am reluctant to support oil drilling in Alaska unless absolutely necessary. It's the same reason I support the retention of green belts, and restrictions on pollution. We have a wonderous natural environment around us, lets not destroy it completely. The Christian Right is increasingly coming to that view as well.

Peter

It's great to see that some right-wingers are finally realising that the environment matters.

But the hard-core will never accept that there should be any limits on our life-styles. They're just too blind or greedy or stupid to see that if we continue on the present binge we'll destroy the planet for future generations.

The Troll

Thev drilling in ANWR and in the continental us along with the gulf of Mexico is absolutly necessary....and long over due

The Troll

RJM I could be americentric and ad that I always love when outsiders speak to whats best for America LOL

Yeah Peter if we get everyone to jump at once maybe we can change the planets orbit while were at it LOL

You guys crack me up

Peter

Troll, I'm beginning to think you're a carricature. Is there ANY environmental problem as far as you're concerned, or is our present lifestyle ABSOLUTLEY OK?

The Troll

no Peter there is a thing called reality. The 2% of the worlds greenhouse gasses that is caused by man (and thats how much ALL of mans activities add to the greenhouse gasses produced every year) are not the cause of globall climate change. If the climate is changing Man has no effect on it one way or another we can't speed it up and we cant stop it. Iceages come and iceages go whether man is here or not. The fanatics on your side have been predicting the end of the world for my whole life. Each year science discover new factors in climatology. Right now the big concentration is on what effect sunspots has on the climate on a long term scale or a cyclic scale. Planet climatology is a science that the variables have changed on a yearly basis as man learns and discovers more and more. You put faith in predictions that people who first to use an example had one dice so the answer had to be 1-6 but the answer that came about was a 7 so there must have been another dice in the equation so the answer then must be 9 but this time the result was 13. Mans ignorance of what he has yet to even figure out what to look at far out weighs what he knows..

Now don't get me wrong should we control what we put in the water YES, should we make sure that we do as little damage as possible to any area that we go into for oil production YES, should we continue research on alternate methods of producing energy YES, those things are common sense where you lack common sense is your belief that we can't drill for oil and have a minnimum impact on the environment or that we have to keep using oil for many many years to come nothing exists that can replace it. That is the plain and simple fact and all the whinging in the world can't change it.

Peter

Actually, I wasn't thinking particularly about global warming. More about over-fishing, the accelerating destruction of the Amazon and other rainforests due to logging and clearance for beef cattle and soya, the wave of man-caused extinctions (tigers and chimps are next), all caused by our unsustainable life-styles and rapidly growing population (from 4 billion to 8 billion in the last 50 years).

For a scary account of the seriousness of over-fishing, see this recent report:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,3605,1678031,00.html

The Troll

There are definitly issues Over fishing, whaling, hunting rhinos for their horns, these are things that I would and do support putting a stop to. Forestry management is also crucial. There are harvesting methods that can be used to replenish as man takes, but not in the case of clear cutting like in the amazon. You quote earlier that it is americans that over indulge and consume everything on the planet yet the things you cite now are all non american issues. We don't overfish, kill tigers, and were not clear cutting the amazon for cattle farmers and our population growth except from illegal aliens is not doubling. You like to blame the US for the woes of the world we are not the great satan of the items you just mentioned. You constantly rail against anyone who doesn't buy into your globall warming caused by man fantasy so rather than address the facts that the science of climatology is anything but sound you now bring up up the extinction of Chimpanzees you are the carricature Peter you see nothing but destruction around you and in the world. And its the USAs fault your a joke

The Troll

what no comment Pete

Peter

Where did I blame the USA for everything? The Amazon is being cleared as much for soya (exported to the EU) as for beef cattle (exported to the USA).

The US population is growing rapidly as its birth-rate is among the highest in the developed world. Of course illegal immigration is also part of the reason.

Many countries are guilty of over-fishing. Canada fished out their cod stocks decades ago. The EU common fishery policy has been a total disaster (compare to Iceland which has managed its stocks very successfully). Japan and others in the pacific rim are also guilty, and of course the Japanese just love whale meat, from whales killed for scientific purposes of course.

As for global warming, you will never accept that it is at least partly due to man's actions, so we'll leave that one for now.

The Troll

Your exultation of Russel Kirk was nothing if not a sideways condemnation of the "whole US consumption of Everything"

and your right I will not accept that 2% of the worlds greenhouse gas emmisions which is what man produces is what is throwing the planet into an iceage.

Peter

Where did I mention Russel Kirk? I don't even know who the guy is.

You seem determined to see everything as an anti-US conspiracy. Get a grip!

RJM

I never really singled out the USA as being responsible. Nor did I solely focus on global warming

What I do dislike is the attitude of people like the Troll that "the environment doesn't matter" when of course it does. I, for one, and there are plenty of other people on the right who agree with me, believe that constant destruction of our natural habitat is appalling and unnecessary. The constant logging in the Amazon without any hope of replenishment is one such issue. Another is the destruction of our fish stocks. At least the troll admits things like this are necessary to put a stop to.

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