WE'RE ALL TO BLAME, WE'RE ALL GUILTY!!!

Guilt. It's a strange thing. Liberals love it. Take Vichy moderate Ulster Unionist Roy Garland, he's full of it. Guilt, that is.

I laughed at his recent column in that well know pro-Union organ "The Irish News" in which he argues that Sir Reg Empey's frank admission that, along with alleged DUP machinations, Ulster Unionists also played fast and loose with paramilitaries is refreshing.

At a stroke this created new possibilities. The disadvantaged and marginalised loyalist communities, whose fears hindered progress, might now enter the fray to frustrate the cosy circles of complacent negativity.

What? Has he perhaps taken too much of the sun when he wrote this drivel? Let's hope so - because otherwise one fears for his sanity. He praises the disgusting PUP - and hails David Ervine and Dawn Purvis as veritable beacons of enlightenment. Roy chimes nicely with the Provo myth that somehow we were ALL guilty, we were ALL as bad as one another. Rubbish. Some of us have ALWAYS supported the forces of law and order, some of us have ALWAYS believed in the rule of law, and some of US realise how to spot a Pup. But not poor Roy.

Comments

[Aileen]

Quite right David!

Is it true that he is ex PUP?

[David Vance]

I have no idea - but he appears to worship Ervine, THAT'S how sad he is.

[Aileen]

taken from Slugger

"I remember talking to someone who was in Castle Buildings on the day the GFA was signed, and the mad Thursday night it was negotiated. He told me how all the UUP MLAs officers and flotsam and jetsam were coming in and out of their party rooms. Papers were being thrown around to people to draft responses. In the middle of this was one Roy Garland, who had got acess to the building as part of the PUP delegation. He had strolled in to the UUP room, and was chatting to various UUPers while others were trying to draft position papers. I’m told Taylor came in- saw him, and had him put out. So it’s hardly surprising Roy likes the PUP- he was batting for them at the time!

The same source told me that the UUP went to Ervine asking for support for 5 member constituencies in the planned assembly, pointing out that nationalists would gain at least 10 of the additional seats. Ervine point blank refused to back the UUP, saying he had to look out for Gary McMichael ( plus Billy and himself, natch). So the PUP played a big part in the crazy mathematics of the last assembly for paramilitary self-interest. Clearly Reg has conveniently forgotten that track record too

Posted by darth rumsfeld on Jun 07, 2006 @ 03:02 PM"

[David Vance]

Fascinating, Aileen.

He doesn't talk to me, ever since I labelled him a Vichy Unionist.

[Aileen]

David

there may be lots of other things that he deserves to be called!

Re Vichy

http://www.sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/trimble_takes_ermine/

Slugger has been interesting today!

[Ultán]

David,

I think Roy Garland is motivated by a desire to avoid more deaths, and by shame at his role in Vanguard perhaps as well. As I understand he has been consistently in the UUP since before the ceasefires, but I'm open to correction.

What I want to ask people here is what proportion of unionists do they think opposed the UWC strike, a massive violation of the rule of law and order, on the grounds of law and order. Certainly very, very few, if any, prominent unionist politicians, many of whom sat on a co-ordinating committee with terrorists. This is why law and order rhetoric from many leading unionist politicians is met with derision from their opponents.

[Aileen]

A strike is hardly a massive violation of the rule of law and order.

[David Vance]

As I understand it, Roy Garland has been a consistent advocate of terrorists in Government. An odd way to ease his liberal guilt?

Further, the vast majority of unionists to not support paramilitary parties which is more than one can say for the legions of Sinn Fein/IRA voters.

[Ultán]

David,

that's fair enough, but almost all unionist politicians have and do use paramilitaries when it suits them. The last attempt was in September, and look how that ended up - policemen and soldiers being bombed and shot at, and getting blamed by both the UUP and DUP. Not a very edifying spectacle for anybody.

Aileen,

are you saying that there was no breakdown of law and order in 1974. I think that's wrong to be honest. There's the massive intimidation to keep people from working for a start. The armed and masked men manning checkpoints and preventing freedom of movement etc. The state had lost control. What else is a massive breakdown of law and order if not this?

I personally think highly of Roy Garland but can see why some unionists mightn't.

For numerous reasons including how the state came into being, the 'normal' rules of politics do not apply here. To talk about law and order, democracy etc in NI as though that's unproblematic is to ignore the reality of circumstances. Hence the fact that paramilitaries/paramilitary-linked people get mandates.

[David Vance]

To talk about bloody terrorism is actually very simple, and to condemn it and the scum who support the terrorists is even easier.

[Aileen]

Ultan

(Apologies of that isn;t the right spelling but I can't see the name clearly)

The riots were a disgrace!

I don't like the use of the word "paramilitary". It is euphemistic and I beleive panders to the ego of these frubby criminals.

Re the strike.

"are you saying that there was no breakdown of law and order in 1974. " No I'm not but a strike is a withdrawal of labour and that I supported and would have been part of (if I'd been employed as opposed to being a school kid).

"There's the massive intimidation to keep people from working for a start. The armed and masked men manning checkpoints and preventing freedom of movement etc. "

All of that I did not support. (I didn't really know about it until years later), but that's a different matter. I think that it is perfectly possible to have supported the miner's strike without supporting the intimidation that was attached to that. I'm not making any judgements about the relative degree of either, just establishing the principle.

[Ultán]

Ailenn,

don't worry about the fada (the accent), but I appreciate the thought. I understand what you're saying about the strike, but the UWC was co-ordinated by terrorists and politicians in alliance.

David,

Condemning terrorism and those who support it is easy, but the problem I see here is that on both sides, people who were never involved, and denied that they supported terrorism, contributed to a climate that legitimised the terrorism. To do that brings a degree of moral responsibility, which I believe is your point on Roy Garland. However, the numbers who haven't done this are tiny. So we're somewhat stuck in the situation we're in, and have to try and make the best of it.

[David Vance]

Ultan,

No. The TERRORISTS joyfully went about their killing spree. They needed no excuses. Those such as Garland who argue for the perversion of the standards of democracy only facilitate the ends of the IRA, UVF, UDA et al. Vichy seems the right word from where I stand.

[Aileen]

Ultan

I couldn't even make out that there was a fada LOL!

I suspect that Roy Garland has things to be guilty about. If so he should shoulder it and not seek to get the rest of us to.

[Ultán]

David,

I really do think that people who fed sectarianism and hatred in all its forms bear responsibility for this. I agree people bear responsibility for their own actions, but their decisions are influenced by the world around them.

Or as someone wiser and beardier than me put it, 'Men make their own history but not in circumstances of their own choosing'

[Aileen]

Ultan

beards are not a sign of erudition, honestly ;o)

[Ultán]

Indeed not. Can think of at least one prominent local who that applies to

[Aileen]

It was also a gender based dig ;o)

[Ultán]

Such prejudiced sentiments are too subtle for my radar. On the other hand, there's a few female locals that could probably apply to too

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