The Monkey and the Organ Grinder

It's another big day for the 'peace process' folks!  Tony Blair, and some interfering foreign busybody who answers to the name of 'Bertie', will be jetting into Belfast to essentially threaten Unionists about apocalyptic scenarios they have in mind should the DUP (as is almost inevitable) refuses to permit the puppeteers of murdering Provo scum into power.  I wonder what mode of transport Tony will use for his peace process metaphor this time?  We've had the trains and the boats.  All we need now are the planes and we have the complete Billy J. Kramer outfit.

We will be told that the November 24 deadline is 'sacrosanct'.  So is the principle that terrorist murderers should serve out their sentences to the full instead of being set free in droves to assuage their frontsmen in political negotiations.  But hey, what is 'sacrosanct' when we are talking about this appeasement process?  The most interesting point will be the mood music emitted by Blair as he ponders what his Plan B will look like.  Will we have some flesh on the bones of 'joint stewardship'?  A soundbite guaranteed to make the hearts of every Sinn Fein voter flutter with the same excitement they experienced everytime they heard that policemen, soldiers and innocent bystanders had been blown to smithereens?

My advice to the DUP is to hold your nerve.  Political soundbites are very different from the limits of constitutional legality.  Failure to include the leaders of Provo terror in government will, in essence, mark a return of the AIA with some window-dressing North/Southery.  Even I could live with that, so I'm sure the DUP and the pro-Union people will be able to in preference to Martin McGuinness 007 holding sway over children's education.

Talking of constitutional legality, I see Gerry is still at a loss to explain why the soundbite of Northern Ireland representation in the Dail hasn't come to fruition.  Could it be another classic case of political rhetoric versus legal possibility?  You see, Article 3 of the Irish Constitution makes crystal clear that the sovereign remit of the Dail covers the Republic of Ireland only.  Whereas 'shared' institutions operated in tandem with the jurisdictional legitimacy of United Kingdom sovereignty in Northern Ireland transcend the border for operational purposes, the extent and application of laws passed by the Oireachtas certainly does not. 

In order for Northern representation to be anything other than a visual propaganda exercise designed to infuriate Unionists (which it would definitely do), Article 3 would have to be scrapped and a territorial claim re-inserted to give credence to the exercise.  This would entail the unilateral scrapping of the British-Irish Agreement, contravention of EU membership and a breach of the UN Charter on State sovereignty.  If the Republic wants to travel down such a path to serve the interests of a party whose ultimate aim is to destabilise a State it effectively sees as illegitimate as Northern Ireland, then so be it.  There is a valuable lesson which history has given the politics of the island of Ireland.  It can either be partitioned and relatively stable, or putatively manacled by nationalist ideological imperatives and face decades of massive inter-communal strife.  Let's hope the Irish government opt for pragmatism over ideology.

Comments

[Henry94]

It can either be partitioned and relatively stable, or putatively manacled by nationalist ideological imperatives and face decades of massive inter-communal strife.

The only part of Ireland that has not been stable has been the part under British rule. It was unstable by the nature of its creation and operation.

The basis for stability is the operation of the agreement. The governments know this and they will implement it themselves if the unionists aren't up for it.

It is interesting that you conclude that the AIA and more is no big deal (compared to power-sharing with Sinn Fein). That's not the way it looked in 1985 and it is a direct gain from Sinn Fein's political success that a role for the south in the north is now seen as a better alternative even by die-hards like yourself.

Of course Sinn Fein will one day be part of a southern government operating the joint-stewardship.

How clever will that make the DUP look?

[Andrew McCann]

No

Northern Ireland has been relatively unstable because:
1. A minority of the population refused to operate the instutions of the State like minorities elsewhere in Europe have reconciled themselves to doing.
2. That rebellious streak has been complimented by a vicious, bloody terrorist operation funded from various parts of the world.
3. The Province has been given the impression of constitutional instability by successive governments encouraging the 'one last heave' strategy of Irish nationalism.

I never said the AIA was 'no big deal'. I said it was tolerable and preferable to terrorists holding sway in a province they want to destroy.

As for Sinn Fein holding office in the Republic and 'manipulating' the situation to their advantage, I suspect this is more of Henry's shitstirring than a conceivable scenario.

[aileen]

"But hey, what is 'sacrosanct' when we are talking about this appeasement process?"

What indeed?

[Madradin Ruad]

Amusing that Henry claims that the illegal 26 county statelet was "stable" !

[Andrew McCann]

MR

He must have forgotten about the civil war, the decades of emigration, political corruption, governmental instability, poverty.

[Henry94]

If you want to make the argument that the south is not and has not been stable then go ahead. I don't care how silly you look.

As for the north we are arguing the causes of the instability rather than the fact of it. The interesting thing is that a basis for stability, the agreement, is rejected by unionists. That is because the NI state is not as important to them as sectarianism. That is their great political weakness and it will be their undoing.

Sinn Fein will be in government in the south. That is a political reality. It won't be after the next election but it will be within a decade.

[Andrew McCann]

'The interesting thing is that a basis for stability, the agreement....'

Could this be th same agreement which has institutionalised sectarianism and created a more demographically polarised society than at any time in recent history?

Make no mistake, the preservation of the 'NI State' is the top priority for all Unionists. That's why they will reject plans to put people who want to destroy it into power.

Unionists would prefer Sir John Gorman to be Education Minister over Martin McGuinness any day. They are both Catholic.

'Sinn Fein will be in government in the South'.

I hope you enjoy yourselves as the foreign investors take flight. It should be quite a giggle.

[Henry94]

Make no mistake, the preservation of the 'NI State' is the top priority for all Unionists.

They have a funny way of going about it. In rejecting Martin McGuiness you don't get John Gorman, you get Maria Eagle Labour MP for Liverpool, Garston, running the education department.

That is not a strategy for preserving the state. It is a strategy for preserving the LCD unionist consensus at the expense of the state.

[aileen]

"That is because the NI state is not as important to them as sectarianism."]]not taking terrorists out of prison and putting them in gavernment would appear to be the encapsulated in the defnintions of secatarianism

[Madradin Ruad]

I don't care how silly you look.

You have your head in the sand.

The interesting thing is that a basis for stability

If your comments about Stability and the Free State are anything to go by, your idea of stability Is Orwellian

This "basis" for stability - was very stable when the UUP gave it a go, didn't it ?

[Colm]

aileen

Someone joked about my use of the word 'encapsulated' the other day. Glad to see we have something else in common, despite Jonathon Ross !

[Reg]

"It can either be partitioned and relatively stable, or putatively manacled by nationalist ideological imperatives and face decades of massive inter-communal strife."

Ah yes, "massive intercommunal strife". Of course, this is code for the threat of unionist terrorism if their beloved partition is ended.

"Let's hope the Irish government opt for pragmatism over ideology."

You mean that the Irish Govt gives in to this terrorist threat?

For shame, sir.

[Madradin Ruad]

I hope you enjoy yourselves as the foreign investors take flight. It should be quite a giggle.

SF seem to hold true to the Democratic Programme of the first Dáil (1919)in their Poverty policy document.

; Republicans reaffirmed ‘that all right to private property must be subordinated to the public right and welfare.’ Furthermore, the Government guaranteed that in return for willing service it would recognise the ‘right of every citizen to an adequate share of the nation’s labour.’ Such a programme taken in tandem with an effective industrialisation policy would have been adequate to eliminate poverty in Ireland.
The Democratic Programme also makes a specific commitment in terms of addressing child poverty: “it shall be the first duty of the Government of the Republic to make provision for the physical, mental and spiritual well-being of the children, to secure that no child shall suffer hunger or cold from lack of food, clothing, or shelter, but that all shall be provided with the means and facilities requisite for their proper education and training as Citizens of a Free and Gaelic Ireland”.
Sinn Féin reaffirms this commitment and this document is an attempt to provide a Republican approach to delivering the goal of eliminating poverty in our society - a society which must set itself the objective of guaranteeing these rights to all our citizens.

That'll go down a treat with the people using the ROI :)

[aileen]

Morning Colm

What's supposed to be wrong with encapsulated. I'm sure Jr uses it too! ;o)

[Garfield]

I'm afraid you don't even seem to have a very rudimentary understanding of the Irish Constitution Andrew.

It isn't Article 3 that could scupper Gerry rather Article 16, which deals with parliamentary representation.

But don't let the fact you don't know what you are talking about stop you from waffling on and on.

[Madradin Ruad]

Reg beautifully illustrates the republican 3 monkey mindset - intercommunal violence doesn't matter as long as it happens in a 32 county Ireland. In their minds it'll be a worthwhile price to pay.

[Madradin Ruad]

Henry - how much blood has Ms Eagle got on her hands ?

[Colm]

aileen

Nothing wrong with Encapsulate. Some people just don't appreciate big words!

"Jr" Don't tell me you're copying Troll now :)

[Andrew McCann]

Article 3 is more relevant because it separates, in order to concur with international law, the state (which is sovereign) and the nation (which isn't).

Reg

These are not my threats. These are the facts of history. I know your crowd like to concentrate on 1916 and forget 1912, but facts cannot be airbrushed to suit your version of Anschluss.

[aileen]

Colm

It's an everyday word isn't it?

Oopps JR

That's how rumours spread.

[Henry94]

MR

Henry - how much blood has Ms Eagle got on her hands ?

How much had the SDLP in 1973 when Unionism refused to share power with them.

What you have there is an excuse not a reason. And certainly not a viable political strategy.

[Madradin Ruad]

How much had the SDLP in 1973 when Unionism refused to share power with them.

That's an out and out lie Henry.I'm surprised at you.

[Reg]

"Reg beautifully illustrates the republican 3 monkey mindset - intercommunal violence doesn't matter as long as it happens in a 32 county Ireland. In their minds it'll be a worthwhile price to pay."

Mad, you're a great man for dodging the issue ;)

The dark threats of "intercommunal violence" if national unity ever happens are the only reason for the continued existence of NI and the principle of contempt.

[Colm]

aileen

JR Now I get what you meant. I thought you were using Trolls nickname for our Adrian.

[Madradin Ruad]

The dark threats of "intercommunal violence"

there was no threat - there was an attempt to discuss what is quite likely to happen in the event of anschluss.