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May 31, 2006

Comments

Political Teenager

I thought the government said that they were on top of the problem when it ws revealled last year. Obviously not.

juan

modern english education means that most of the parents in these often young families have no aspect of financial planning or prudence (they just never learnt it).
these renunerations can litteraly cripple poor families, who have already blown the money on mini mopeds and flat screen t.v.s.
nanny left the bleach open. again.

"How many heads will roll? None." - tony blairs surest security is that the public will do nothing.

JOe Soap

david, your sickening right wing brand of christianity is so far removed from the bible as the sun from th emoon

I cant belive you critised people who received this tax credit -designed to help those on low income.

Maybe if you so called christians did what the bible asked - sell all that you have and give it to the poor, then we would not have to have tax credits.

Heres a challange for you david, for one month live on the minimum wage, pay all your bills, pay the mortgage, buy clothes for the kids, buy healthy nutrious food etc.

until david, you can be more like Christ, please do not DARE to use the cloak of christianity for your obvious selfish , money orientated views

Grumpy Troll

Joe Soap, I know not Mr Vance's views on the issues at hand but am too a Christian and I believe that economic liberalism is not only fairer than socialism, it's also more beneficial to the poorest in society as it creates jobs. Socialism is not only unfair theoretically, it's also disproved practically: it doesn't work.

You accuse Mr Vance of expressing "selfish, money-orientated views"; I assume that, as I do, Mr Vance believes that tax is theft and that charity should be conducted at an individual level. Do you know how much Mr Vance gives to charity? Do you just presume that since he promotes an economic model in which one's salary isn't stolen and redistributed, he keeps all his money to himself?

Adrian

Grumpy Troll,
Tax is theft??? That's a strange attitude. Are you an anarchist?

Hugh Green

DV,

Are overpaid tax credits 'largesse'?.

If you don't think people should be paying tax in the first instance, the only problem for you should be that not enough tax credits were overpaid.

Grumpy Troll

Tax is theft. One is given money in exchange for work, the government takes some of that salary and provides services that one may not want of (competition being more efficient), also redistributing it to some who did nothing to earn it.

I'm a classical liberal, a libertarian conservative, a neo-liberal, whichever label you prefer.

NRG

In a similar vein...
Belfast Telegraph- Taxpayers facing £100m bill 31 May 2006

A key government department is facing a massive 'black hole' - up to £100m - after failing to recover money from a European funding body, the Belfast Telegraph can reveal today.

It is claimed that poor record keeping in the department in the past is the cause of the problem.

Adrian

Like the poor record keeping under Paul Bremer's administration in Iraq which left around 8-9 billion dollars unaccounted for!

I like your style, Grumpy Troll!

NRG

It all boils down to Gordon's obsession with means testing which really just a new twist on the Labour instinct to discourage saving and promote dependence on the state so party apparatchiks can control all aspects of peoples lives from cradle to grave.

Doubtless Edinburgh will be renamed Gordongrad.

David Vance

Grumpy Troll,

I see it in exactly the same way as you. Tax IS theft and charity should be an individual act, not a collectivist imperative!

Thanks for the kind words.

Joe Soap,

You're washed out. Take a hike.

Joe Soap

grumpy if tax is theft then, as a christian, you should refuse to pay it and go to jail rather than participate in a criminal act.

Where in the bible does it say tax is theft
jesus said, render unto ceaser what is caesers

The bible also says kings and those in authortiy have been appointed by god himself.

YOur last of charity shows why the church today is weak and dying, it has no love, but is centreed on money . get as much as you can and keep as much as you can.

If you truly had faith in god as the provider for your needs you would do as the bible commands give all you have to the poor for the scripture tells us that he that gives to the poor, lends to the lord and the lord will repay

Grumpy Troll
grumpy if tax is theft then, as a christian, you should refuse to pay it and go to jail rather than participate in a criminal act.

I'm not the criminal if the money is being stolen from me.

Where in the bible does it say tax is theft jesus said, render unto ceaser what is caesers

The Bible doesn't say that tax is theft but it does say …

"Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." (Mt 5:42)

Jesus speaks of tax with derision.

"And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee." (Mt 17:24–27)

One is going to miraculously find money for the tax in the mouth of a fish!

"Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." (Mt 22:19–21)

What belongs to Caesar? Does the penny belong to him solely because his image is on it?

YOur last of charity shows why the church today is weak and dying, it has no love, but is centreed on money . get as much as you can and keep as much as you can.

Churches aren't being deserted because of greed but due to the apparent contradiction most see between religion and science. You'll find that the Church isn't centred on money, those that don't belong to it are. It's not because people are greedy that churches are being deserted, it's because churches are being deserted that people are greedy.

You are once again producing personal attacks when you know nothing of Mr Vance or of myself. I reiterate: do you know how much Mr Vance gives to charity? Do you just presume that he keeps all his money to himself? Are you charging me with lack of charity? I'm 16, do you believe that I have much to give away?

If you truly had faith in god as the provider for your needs you would do as the bible commands give all you have to the poor for the scripture tells us that he that gives to the poor, lends to the lord and the lord will repay

If you consider that faith in God is an issue of giving all you have to the poor, then how come you are posting on this website? Are you borrowing the computer from the poor that you gave it to?

Alex

My God, the imcompetence of these oafs is beyond belief. No doubt the Government will be forced to write this money off as a governement depratment, sorry, department bungled this up once again. The mind boggles.

Frank O'Dwyer

Grumpy,

Tax is theft.

If someone is stealing your money you should report that to the police.

Never mind that neither your money nor the police would exist without tax.

One is given money in exchange for work, the government takes some of that salary and provides services that one may not want of

However you obviously do want them since you use them. There is a word for taking services without paying for them.

(competition being more efficient)

As Somalia demonstrates.

I'm a classical liberal, a libertarian conservative, a neo-liberal, whichever label you prefer.

How about "sucker"?

David Vance

Frank,

And you're a moonbat. Leave Grumpy alone.

Frank O'Dwyer

David,

You spotted that Grumpy was a bit limited too, huh?

Certainly "tax is theft" is impressively stupid, even for here.

David Vance

No Frank, you're what's stupid.

gil

Frank,

And whereabouts are you impressively stupid - playschool?

Frank O'Dwyer

Gil, David,

I'll take those content-free and rather limp ad hominems as an admission that you have no rebuttal to offer.

Now back to your ineffectual whining.

David Vance

Frank,

No, you go back the rock you crawled from under. And your soaraway site.

Frank O'Dwyer

David,

No rebuttal, huh?

By the way it doesn't work when you say "no" yet still return to your ineffectual whining as I predicted you would.

David Vance

Admit it Frank - you love us. Now, is it a full moon tonight?

Frank O'Dwyer

David,

Poor Grumpy. Not even you are willing to defend his uh, "arguments". Snicker.

I'm disappointed that you seem to have run out of ideas so quickly. I expect you will attempt to change the subject again or perhaps just whine again.

Of course you need not respond at all if the topic of tax is too complex for you, as appears to be the case.

HTH!

David Vance

Well Frank,

Being patronising to younger bloggers ain'y my thang, though clearly you get off on it. I suppose scoring a point of a 16 year old blogger is an accomplishment for you...now you know how to be dumb.

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