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January 31, 2006

Comments

Henry94

There is a balance between freedoms. My instinct is that people should be allowed wear what they like

But I think it is reasonable for a society to insist that people are identifiable in public.

Colm

Oh No not this again. I remember the last marathon thread on this topic in which my arguments won hands down :)

DST

Goodness. Sense from Yasmin! She's a slow learner, but she got there in the end...

Peter

David,

The chances of this government passing legislation to ban the burka in public are NIL. It's too busy legislating to stop commedians making jokes against religion, with Islam the main beneficiary.

I'd love to get Red Ken's take on the burka. I think he'd be in favour of Sharia law for muslims if they pushed for it in London.

Watch out for a bust-up on the left in the future between the genuine liberals and the cultural appeasers.

Colm

There could be just as equally a bust up on the right between the libertarians and the authoritarians.

DST

Nah Colm... Libertarianism is a dilettante "what if" parlour game... It's a lot of fun, and conservatives (I think you mean conservatives when you say authoritarians... otherwise your point would be a bit meaningless / tautologous?) have a regard for it (and many play the libertarian parlour game too), but when the chips are down most libertarians will sensibly revert to being conservatives.

The practicalities of protecting individual freedoms and society from Jihadists (or any other anti-liberal movement) will re-assert themselves. Libertarians will stop daydreaming about theory - and work with conservatives (who are just another branch of the liberal (in its classical sense) family) to deal with immediate and real threats.

Colm

DST

I am only sayig that the idea that it is just the left who will have differing views over this topic is nonsense. The Right will NOT unite to approve banning the Burqa. There will be differences in the degree to which principle is most important - the personal liberty to wear a Burqa , or the degree to which the state can justify it's banning.

Not all Conservatives will concur on this matter any more than those on the left will.

Hugh Green

Any lawyers out there able to comment on what type of legislation would be needed to ban the wearing of burqas? Would burqas have to be specified (and if so, how would you be able to distinguish between a burqa and a secular piece of tablecloth?), or would any garment covering the face be likely to fall under the ban?

Peter

Hugh, I think the English language is up to the task of describing a burka in sufficient detail to keep the lawyers happy.

Colm

Really?. Lawyers will spend thousands of (other peoples) pounds in courts arguing about the placing of a comma, I hardly think a suitable description of a Burqa will ever be agreed to satisfy 3 in one room , let alone the entire profession.

Hugh Green

What type of legislation would it be, then, Mr Smartypants?

Alison

"Such is the perverse character of British feminism"..and liberalism generally - all the same daft isms to me. Really great observation David. Its truly SAD the nos of 'descendants' of feminism out there who pay lip service to this. Good to read this though. There have been several on it lately. Very enouraging.

DST

I think we all know a burqa when we see one (and we know why someone wears one - and it's not about piety).

I'm sure the law-people will come up with a form of words... if they don't, I imagine people will start taking action on this autonomously. I wouldn't be surprised - and I wouldn't blame them either.

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/12/immigrant-rape-wave-in-sweden.html

Henry94

What penalty would people suggest for the wearing of the burqa. A fine? Prison? ASBO?

How would they deal with an organised refusal to comply? Lock 'em all up?

Alison

yeah why not Henry - after all when the Dont talk about Islam! bill gets pushed through my freedoms will be curtailed and jail a prospect.

Colm

DST

What do you mean "people will start taking action on this autonomously" ?

Alison

Two wrongs don't make a right

DST

People might just start ripping them off I suppose.

Monica-Philadelphia

What an interesting idea. As far as I know the burqa is not required anywhere in the Koran - Mad? Will you enlighten us?

Just the thought of doing anything like this initially causes a strange squirming sensation in my gut. The more I have to deal with women in full flowing garb the more uncomfortable I am with it though. Immediately I think of security. Who is REALLY under that thing? What have they got in there? Guns, grenades, a sword with which to chop someone's head off?

I wouldn't put it past an islamofascist terrorist bastard to use the get-up in the commission of a crime. I believe they've had problems with this in Iraq already.

Colm

Monica

Did you see the pictures of Jacko in similar gear in Dubai. Now what was he hiding under his 'Burqa'.

Ultonian Scottis American

The truth is, feminazis will not oppose anything that they feel is a slap in the face to traditional Western culture, even the enslavement of other women.

Alison

Great point also USA

Colm

The wearing of the Burqa when it is done through comulsion is an act of enslavement. Equally the banning of the Burqa is another, albeit milder form of enslavement.

Alison

Well nows the perfect time to bring back enslavement then! It SO suits the current climate after all - you may suggest that two wrongs dont make a right Colm but the fact is if 'that' bill is pushed through then we are already making a retrograde step so we as well throw in the towel and bring in mild enslavement to sit alongside our new found censorship - another wonderful aspect of 'so called' liberal thinking government!

DST

Oh Colm - get a grip!

"Banning the burqa" is not enslavement! You've seen the rowing scene on Ben Hur. That's enslavement.

Banning the burqa will merely deprive people of the right to oppress others.

The burqa deprives the wearer of freedom and dignity - but it also intimidates onlookers. It's a way of sticking two fingers up at our values.

And, unsophisticate that I am, I believe that immigrants who want to do *that* should be encouraged to do so back in their native lands. Or, should they have been born in the UK, in lands ruled by the values and culture they persist in claiming as their own.

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