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April 04, 2005

Comments

Emily

I'm glad you set that straight, David. I was formerly mistaken that you were both French.

*Ducks*

Todd

Go On outa that David, sure I saw you in Ballinasloe at the weekend supporting Down :)

David Vance

Emily,

SPLUTTER...FRENCH....AAARGH..why that's even worse than Irish..oops...sorry all Irish ATW readers...

Todd,

I have witnesses to prove otherwise and deny all knowledge of Ballinasloe type activities - no one at ATW has ever been involved in Ballynasloe activities abd if they were, we would suspend them, pending our investigations. Got that?

Michael Shilliday

You know David, I am Irish.

The whole point of being British is the diversity and tolerance of its origional four and now many more national identities. If you're British you can be Scottish and British, English and british and as I am, Irish and british. If you're Irish, you're just Irish. I'm proud to be an Irish component part of a diverse and great nation, just as Carson was.

David Vance

Michael,

You may indeed be Irish - a section of Unionism lives under that delusion but we on ATW are 100% certain that we are British. Being born in a stable does not make one a horse, you know. I am proud of my BRITISH heritage, though I wonder if the Carson you quote is Frank?? :-)

Michael Shilliday

I didn't say that I'm not British, just that being so is in no way incompatable with being Irish, complimentary infact.

David Vance

Nonsense - Irish has NOTHING to do with British, but here's a challenge - ask one Irish person if they also feel British. And if not, why not.

Michael Shilliday

I also addressed that before, if you're Irish you're just Irish, to be British is to be part of a diverse nation in which one can be Scotish, English, Welsh and Irish, the point is that we're all british together.

Todd

So David who do you support when say the Irish cricket (or any other all ireland team) team play England?

Todd

"Irish has NOTHING to do with British, but here's a challenge - ask one Irish person if they also feel British. And if not, why not"

I can answer that, I don't feel British because... ahh hell the list is too long.

Young  Irelander

I don't feel British because I was not born on the island of Britain but the island of Ireland. I don't understand why Ireland-born men and women deny their Irishness.

David

David,
I'll note that you apologize to your Irish readers, but not to your French ones. Hmmmm.

MIchael

As a Northern Irish nationalist I think, in all honesty, that the reason why nationalists in the north think of themselves as being Irish moreso than British is simply because when growing up the structures in NI that were/are seen as quintessentially British, or rejoicing in Britishness, were not inclusive for nationalists. I know I'm painting in massive broad strokes (and yes I know there are notable exceptions to this statement) but thats it simply put.

So if you think of yourself as not being British all that only leaves is Irishness.

Andrew McCann

People in Northern Ireland are British, whatever delusional label of nationalistic convenience they choose to ascribe themselves.

Bernie Goldbach

Not to worry--I think the "Irish blog" tag is used casually with sites that appear to know the geographic location of Ireland. And that really confuses Americans like me.

Paul

First and foremost, I'm British but as Michael says that makes me part of a bigger whole which comprises of the 4 component parts, so I see no contradiction in considering myself both British and NORTHERN Irish.

My culture, versions of history and roots are not Irish and although I have thoroughly enjoyed holidays in the Republic it still feels instinctively as much a foreign country to me as France or Germany, although it can be(on occasions) easier to understand the locals!

On the Norman Tebbit test of nationality,which was also posed by Todd,
"who do you support when say the Irish cricket (or any other all ireland team) team play England"
I've got to say that All-ireland teams be they cricket, rugby or otherwise do not inspire any kind of patriotic feeling in me-there's only one international team that does that-Northern Ireland!


David Vance

Paul,

I agree with your analysis. The "All-Ireland" trojan horse teams do NOTHING for me. If it's an NI team - fine.

maca

All inclusive Britishness, gotta love it.

Point of grammar David. "na h√Čireann" means "of Ireland".
Are you not indeed "of Ireland" or are you "of Britain"? I understood you were from this island.

David Vance

Maca,

Gotta love all-inclusive Britishness as opposed to anally retentive paraochial Irishness.

Oh, and am I of Ireland? No. The island may be Ireland the country of Northern Ireland is BRITISH and no cheap huckster attempt to pigeon-hole me as Irish will ever work. This is a British blog and it amuses me that some like to deny it! Then again, some people believe Elvis is still alive and living in Ireland no doubt.

maca

So you're not from the island? That's all i was asking.

maca

p.s.
"Gotta love all-inclusive Britishness as opposed to anally retentive paraochial Irishness."

I'd prefer to be "anally retentive paraochial Irishness" any day than a false brand of Britishness which has no place for people who want to also identify themselves as Irish, Scottish, Welsh or English. Far be it for me to define Britishness but your narrow definition is certainly not it.

Andrew McCann

'I'd prefer to be "anally retentive paraochial Irishness" any day.'

And nationalists do it so well!!

slackjaw

I think the lesson from this particular discussion is that no-one likes to be told that they are something
which they plainly do not believe themselves to be.

So if someone from Northern Ireland or for that matter the Republic tells me he is British and only British, I see no need to convince him otherwise. In fact, if I attempt to convince him otherwise, he'll probably become even more British. Which is fine too, because I don't care anymore.

I used to see myself as Irish, Northern Irish and indeed partly British. But all three carry connotations that I can't be bothered with any longer. I'm sick of people from all sides making proclamations about how I, as an 'Irishman' or a 'Northerner' or whatever should think or act.

There are far more important concerns in life than categorising yourself for the convenience of others. Worrying about nationality, whether it's your own or that of others, constipates the mind.

Colm

To be fair to Richard I think he has listed ATW as an Irish blog because it emerged as a weblog on Northern Ireland themes from a unionist standpoint even though it has expanded to include David and Andrew's views on everything under the sun. It may irk our 2 esteemed hosts but generally speaking anything centred on Northern Ireland is bracketed by the rest of the world as 'Irish' regardless of the proud British identity of the greater number of it's people.

joc

People in Northern Ireland are British, whatever delusional label of nationalistic convenience they choose to ascribe themselves.

Andrew, under the law (whether you like it or not), they can also be Irish. After all, a majority of the province voted for it in the referendum (i.e. > 50%+1 of the population).

And I suspect a few Welshmen and Scottish folks would also see themselves as Welsh/Scohhish as well as British. The British designation tolerates this, even if you don't ;)

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