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February 28, 2005

Comments

Young  Irelander

"Miserable Mike" says Peter Robinson yet Peter isn't exactly the jolliest person in the world,is he?

David Vance

Hardly a barrel of laughs! The Doc is more fun.

slackjaw

Reading about inter-unionist squabbles is like swallowing a fistful of mogadon. I suspect that the real reason for the ‘furious in-fighting’ is that your union is safe.

David, you talk of unionism ‘performing’: surely there is only one performance criterion, and that is the maintenance of the union. No other concern of either unionist party is truly ‘unionist’ in a secular, purely constitutional sense.

‘’Is there NO vision other than who can grab the most seats, the most money, the most power?’’

Here’s a vision for unionism: its disappearance. As long as you have a majority of people in Northern Ireland voting for parties whose defining characteristic is their ‘unionism’, you have a tacit recognition of the brute reality of Northern Ireland – that its people do not truly live in the United Kingdom, at least not in the sense that someone living in Wigan or Brighton does. No-one there casts ‘unionist’ votes at council or parliamentary elections. In England (and perhaps to a lesser extent in Scotland and Wales) very few people give any real consideration to the maintenance of the union, because there is no need - they’re too busy living in the real United Kingdom.

David Vance

Slackjaw,

Thanks for that - I can understand that inter-unionist debates can be slumber inducing for some - but for unionists they can be of interest!

Now, as to the substance of your suggestion, I agree! I would like to see political substance here move way beyond the ever-so-dull rhetoric of "the union" - that's ONE reason why I did my best to promote an integrationalist type Party such as the UKUP - HOWEVER -the brutal truth is that the UK Government wants shot of the pro-Union people(note the choice of terminology, please)and hence the debate gets shunted into tribal mode. It's deja vu all over again, every time.

I also have a suggestion for nationalists. Forgeddit! Time to move beyond fantasy and work with reality. The politics of Nationalism are archaic and not even cute.

slackjaw

DV

'the brutal truth is that the UK Government wants shot of the pro-Union people(note the choice of terminology, please)and hence the debate gets shunted into tribal mode.'

I note your choice of terminology, and I'm not inclined to disagree with your analysis. Only a moron would think that any member of the present government sees Northern Ireland as being as British as Finchley. (In truth, Maggie Thatcher probably didn't either, otherwise she would never have made the comment in the first place)

But if the attitude of the UK government is as you describe, surely part of the reason for this is that Ulster unionism, in full tribal mode, and despite publicity to the contrary, simply isn't British? (OK, unionists are perfectly entitled to claim that it is, but that does not mean that a majority of Britons see it as such) That is the contradiction inherent in the identity politics played by both unionist parties, and a stumbling block to what unionism should really be about.

'Time to move beyond fantasy and work with reality. The politics of Nationalism are archaic and not even cute.'

Indeed.


David Vance

SLACKJAW,

Thanks for your feedback. There is an undoubted friction at the heart of "Ulster Unionism" - put there by a treacherous Whitehall elite and dundering local Unionist dinosaurs. However because the majority of citizens that live in NI wish to remain part of the UK, that does seem to me to be a legitimate wish that should be honoured. Of course it's NOT - Blair and co would let go in a second but thank god we're not relying on him.

It is this essential permanent crisis at the heart of our politics that I think holds us back. I don't know about you but there are SO MANY more interesting issues that get my attention - but we're stuck here in a revolving door with the same political mess, yesterday, today and tomorrow. When I look at most of the politicians out there (all hues) I want to weep!!!

Young  Irelander

DV

"The politics of nationalism are archaic and not even cute."

Not at all.Nationalism is the future!I predict the emergence of English nationalism within the 21st century and the demise of the monarchy once Charlie takes the throne.
The biggest obstacle for Irish nationalism is Sinn Fein who in their attempts to unite people,only serve to divide them with their tribal attitudes.
I predict a united Ireland in the 21st century and it will simply be a foramality as Ireland will be united in all but name before it happens.
There is no need for unionism nowadays.

David Vance

YI,

Dream on! I predict that the Republic will be sucked more and more into the European Superstate, stripped of every vestige of national soveriegnty, turned into a little servant of the Brussels bureaucrats - whilst the UK prospers OUTSIDE the Union you don't like but which, alas, you're gonna get.

Irish nationalism is passe, I'm afraid - it's just that you can't see it. Yet.

As for Unionism, as I point out to slackjaw, it too has issues - but remaining British and Independent of the EU, is the key. That option will be denied the Irish people - enslaved by your rabidly europhiliac political elite.

Young  Irelander

David,

Sucked more and more into the European Superstate?If we go,we're taking you with us!
While I oppose the European Union,it doesn't affect Irish nationalism in the way it affects unionism.

Irish nationalism is not passe.It is evolving all the time.Unfortuantely I don't think unionism is capable of that.

If unionists had any sense they would seek to unite and create a single unionist party since SF's tactics are clearly designed to divide unionism.Sadly,I think unionists are feeling the pressure having been abandoned by the British mainland,and,left with this alienation,they are turning on themselves.

David Vance

YI,

I don't believe in evolution! :-)

Face it, the Republic is going to sucked RIGHT in to the EU - straitjacketed and castrated into being a nice little compliant filing cabinet for the EU.

You know that the UK will remain OUTSIDE - hopefully permanently.

Irish nationalism is a dodo - just accept that your only future is a sub-branch of Brussels plc!

Young  Irelander

David,

There are Irish people(like me)who will make our voices heard to make sure we don't face such a fate in Europe!

I hope the UK remains outside but I don't underestimate the European fascists.Can the British stand up to Brussels?

As for Irish nationalism,it transcends the EU.A United Ireland is approaching!

David Vance

YI,

A united Europe is approaching much more quickly! I believe that the British WILL stand up - I certainly dupport your own stance and sincerely wish more Irish people thought as you. But you and I know that Ireland will slavishly endorse the EU constitution and that means - national castration - so bye bye United Ireland and hello Euro region 67.

Young  Irelander

The result is not a foregone conclusion in Ireland.Besides one rejection might derail the whole thing...

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