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February 11, 2005

Comments

Young  Irelander

Proof if any were needed that they are a bizarre bunch down in Cork.Just as long as they are not invited to Dublin,I'll be happy.

Paul

Once again, the GAA let themselves down. More disappointing because the London branch has in recent years tried to move away from this kind of crap.

Andrew McCann

YI

Would you be equally happy with my suggestion that all nationalists be kicked out of Northern Ireland?

Ciarán

...we'll leave aside the ignorant and erroneous comment about Orangemen wearing terrorist regalia...

Andrew, this took me about 15 seconds to find. Actually, paraphenalia like this is illegal in the UK too, so the requests for Cork are pretty much in keeping with what would be the case, if the law was enforced, in the North.

As for the St. Patrick's day parade, I too am not comfortable with entry-ism, but I tend not to think that people like that reflect the concerns or sentiments of the majority of people on those parades.

And lastly, unlike YI, I think it's a grand thing that the OO will march in Cork. I only wish that they'd come back to Dublin (although I suspect that the general apathy of the people down there came as a bit of a shock). The sentiments behind Orangism, despite the flaws of some proportion of the members of the actual order, are (at least historically) a symbol of dissent and Englightenment in Ireland: no harm in peacefull celebrating that tradition, provided the celebrations happen for those reasons as opposed, I'm sure you'll agree, to them happening for reasons of bigotry or territorial domination.

Howard

Like Ciaran, I would like to see the OO parading - by invitation - in the big cities of the south. It has got to be a good thing for both side to have a cultiral exchange. The OO is a mass organization in NI.

Like Ciaran, I think the underlying principles of the OO (protestantism and anti-authoritarianism) are sound. Also the parades are good fun - the lambeg drum, the music, the costumes.

I think it is better that it be reformed, and I think such invitataions could show to the OO a different more tolerant way.

Whoever invited them was big-spirited and I applaud them.

scouseproud

I also welcome this proposed event. Much is made of the Rosnowlagh parade on the saturday before the 12th in Co Donegal,those of us who have been their on the day, will know the Union Flag is not allowed to be flown by any of the participants, and any onlooker hoping to show support by doing likewise is asked to put their flag away. How unlike the atmosphere in London,Birmingham Manchester or Huddersfield etc, where the tricolour is made welcome on the St Patrick day parades.

Young  Irelander

Andrew

"Would you be equally happy with my suggestion that all nationalists be kicked out of Northern Ireland?"

Well,no as I am not a supporter of ethnic cleansing nor am I a supporter of sectarian organisations like the Orange Order and the Ancient Order of Hibernians.

Siobhán Ní Deorain

I believe that the Orange Order and Ancient Order of Hibernians are not particularly good organisations. They divide rather than unite.

However, the Orange Order should not be barred from coming to Cork.

As for Andrew McCann's statement about nationalists being kicked out of Northern Ireland, he should keep silly views like that to himself. It only makes him look foolish. I doubt you would like the idea of all unionists being kicked out of the Republic, would you?

Do not confuse decent nationalists with Sinn Fein voters.

Madradin Ruad

O'Higgins (1919) and de Valera (1939)openly discussed repatriation Siobhán.

willowfield

Ciaran

Andrew, this took me about 15 seconds to find.

You do realise that the photograph was not of Orangemen??

And I'm not sure that what is shown in the photograph is illegal. WHat law are you quoting? I expect the defence would be that the flags and uniforms relate to the 1912-14 period.

Ronan

the ignorant and erroneous comment about Orangemen wearing terrorist regalia.

28 June,2003 Saturday. On the Springfield Road in west Belfast, hundreds of residents staged a peaceful protest at the Orange Order's parade past the houses of Catholic residents with whom they had refused to negotiate. The parade broke every one of the restrictions placed on it by the Parade's Commission; music was played while the march filed past Catholic homes, hangers-on followed the parade through the peace line and an array of paramilitary flags, banners and paraphernalia, including a banner honouring UVF sectarian murderer Brian Robinson, were on display. Many of the bandsmen also wore paramilitary insignia. A bus carrying loyalist bandsmen was attacked as it left the vicinity. There were no reported injuries. (AN, UTV)

2 September 2000
The Orange Order presence at the UVF parade in memory of UVF man Brian Robinson sparked outrage among Nationalists. Robinson was killed by the British Army in 1989 as he was returning to the Shankill from shooting dead Catholic man Brian McKenna in Ardoyne. A spokesman for the Order in Belfast denied that the organisation had outlawed membership of paramilitary organisations, adding that he had "no particular problem" with the Order’s participation in the parade. This follows the outrage at the presence of Apprentice Boys Governor Alisdair Simpson at the funeral of loyalist Bobby Mahood on 24 August. (IN/BBC)


On the Lower Ormeau Rd in Belfast five Catholics were murdered in a bookies shop by the UDA in February 1992. That July Orangemen march past the site of the killings and some of the marchers gave five-fingered salutes in mockery of the five dead. The Secretary of State, Patrick Mayhew, condemned the actions of some of the marchers saying they, " would have disgraced a tribe of cannibals" but then allowed further parades by the Loyal Orders along the Lower Ormeau Rd over the next two months. In the week leading up to the July parade Orange spokesmen repeated that they could not understand why Catholic residents of the area are offended. Earlier that same week, Archie Mc Kelvey, an Orangeman of over 40 years standing was expelled from the Order for having attended Catholic church services (Sunday Life, 5.7.1992, p.33).

In the first Drumcree stand-off in 1995 Wright was active in organising barricades in the Charles St area of the town while the brethren confronted the RUC at the top of the Garvaghy Rd. As Drumcree II developed Wright, whose Mid-Ulster UVF was responsible for the deaths of over 42 Catholics in the area since 1989 (Irish News, 6.9.1996, p.1), was consulting with members of the Portadown District Lodge including the MP for the area, David Trimble. While Wright showed solidarity with local Orangemen his colleagues in the Mid-Ulster UVF kidnapped a local Catholic taxi driver, Michael Mc Goldrick, and shot him in the head. When Wright was subsequently ordered to leave the country by the Combined Loyalist Military Command a rally was held to show support for the 'local hero'. Wright was joined on the platform by William Mc Crea, then DUP MP for Mid-Ulster and member of the Apprentice Boys of Derry and Worshipful Master Harold Gracey of the Portadown District Lodge of the Orange Order.

In March 1997 the Master of a Scottish Orange Lodge, Alexander Mc Kinlay, admitted to a Scottish court that he had threatened a witness in an attempt to quash the case against Lindsay Robb, a loyalist politician found guilty of conspiracy to smuggle arms to the UVF. Mc Kinlay told the prosecution witness that Billy Wright would "deal with his family" (Irish News, 11.3.1997, p.12).

dazza

I CAME ACROSS A PICTURE ( ANDREW; THIS TOOK 15 SECONDS) 12.2.05 UVF BAND. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO TELL ANDREW THIS BAND REPRESENTS THE 36th ulster divison (uvf) FROM THE FIRST WORLD WAR THEY HAVE MARCHED IN FRANCE,BELGUIM,LONDON,LIVERPOOL AND EVEN PLAYED IN DUBLIN.YES IT IS UVF BUT REMEMBER THEY HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH MODERN UVF ONLY NAME STEALING..

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